April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[mrbreeze]

We already won on the merits once.

By hamstring you mean that we will stick to the facts of the DFR and not "fairness" of the Nicolau. Does not matter what judge we get the Nicolau is not going to be on trial only usapa actions.

Negative, your win on merits in Wakes prejudiced court was thrown out by the 9th. Any new court hearing will look at the whole big picture, not just your fantasy.

Sheldon, you should consider that when you spin everything that comes along, you may just be giving your fellow pilots a false hope and hurting them in the long run. I can see where your attorney would do that to raise funds, but you should think about what you're doing. That is why Chip is so hated out East. The old "once bit and twice shy" quagmire finally caught up with him.

To clarify, Chip had a website called "Rumor Control", which was tied into the old ALPA website. Man, you talk about spin.....you look like an amateur compared to what he used to post. A lot of his stuff went uncontested. Where he fell out with the pilot group, IMHO, is when he promoted the UAL merger back in 1998 with all his spin. There are very few pilots in the East that didn't lose money, BIG money due to his spin. To this day, he claims that he wasn't responsible, but you had to be there and live with his spin. He should have been a preacher, instead of claiming to know it all.

breeze

 

[Bill Brasky]

Where does this order cite the west? It does not say which party was not following the rules.

The west filed the petition, no one else. HOW STUPID ARE YOU?

 

[Claxon]

An excellent strategy...otherwise...you would leave any people listening to the fantasized "fairness" uncontrollably laughing themselves outta' their seats. 🙂

I can just imagine your testimony: "Hi folks...I'm cleardirect, a minor mesa nebbish that then took a job at the only airline that'd actually hire me. Pretty impressive, huh guys? How do you like me so far? 🙂 I'm now about to become part of the world's largest airline...through absolutely NO/zip/zero/nada personal merits, just pure, dumb luck. I can now expect a career that will allow me access to magnificent aircraft and worldwide destinations, at what looks to likely be a respectable level of compensation that's far beyond even my wildest dreams ever at good old AWA.... But...but...BUT!...I beez jess' a po' abused liddle child, ifn' I don's gits mah magic nic, which would provide me the chance to jump ahead of people that've worked more than a full decade or even more, longer than myself. Take pity on me and...well...Waaah!...just gimme my nic!" 🙂

GO "spartans"!!! 😉

Absolutely perfect assessment about the group that voted the Nicolau Award away with 98% vote.

 

[Zone5]

I dont think 1400 will come back. Maybe 4 to 500

That's a lot closer to numbers I have seen.......600+- AMR pilots or so who still have recall rights. Which will account for what......6 or 8 months worth the of hiring between the two airlines?

I have totally changed my attitude and advice to want-to-be airline pilots, heretofore whenever asked, I have advised those who don't want to stay in school and get a real job and are are hell bent on being an airline pilot, to steer well clear of USLessAirways. No longer the case, the future looks very bright for the New American Airlines and it would appear to be a great place to get a number at. There's that seniority number thing again, what do you bet it will be DOH going forward? At any rate, if I were a 25-30 year old want-to-be, I would not hesitate to accept a job at the "New" AMR if one were offered. After all, in another 10-15 years we will ALL be, for the most part, gone and there would then be another 20-25 years in the left seat of the 797 or the Airbus 390.

Assuming that there will even be pilots in another 25 years or so, I can see the day coming, where the jets will be driven by "technicians" sitting in "command centers" and "interacting" with computerized GPS based, real time satellite command, computer controlled ATC systems. I'm just glad that I will in all probability be dead by then. As General Patton would say "Where's the Glory in that!".


seajay

 

[Zone5]

I've been gone for awhile, is the west still hoping for the NIC?

Ya, hard to believe......right?


seajay

 

[algflyr]

How come ClearedDirect never responded to my reply to his question??

Hmm...

 

[Zone5]

You do understand that the Majority on the Ninth expressly stated they had no jurisdictional authority to view or comment on the merits of the case. The lower court and the dissenting justice did look at the merits and they are the only two federal judges that have looked at the merits. Silver warned that a LUP would be necessary to discard the NIC which is my point. The only two justices who took on the merits said there is no LUP for discarding an arbitration award.

Blah, blah, blah. You really need to get with the program, you know.....the MOU and what happens going FORWARD at the POR! All this past history is OBE, really try to get a grip! Spend all the time and money you want to in another 2-3 years after the dust settles on the "real" merger and then what, maybe another 2-3 years more for a DRF-II to reach the end of that process. At which time you can whine about how bad you have it compared to where you would be if you still worked for AWA! Good luck with that! Really!, because at that time it won't matter jack to me because I will be retired.

seajay

 

[cleardirect]

The west filed the petition, no one else. HOW STUPID ARE YOU?

What does spelling have to do with our petition? So stupid could it be that the judge issued orders on multiple items in the same order?

We will just see who changes their format for the next filing to determine which party the jusge was talking about.

 

[Phoenix]

"...any list you create will be held up against the nic..."? Cite anything from any standing court rulings that even comes close to stating that....?

Paragraph please!!

 

[Phoenix]

Fill me in. What other court has looked at the merits besides Wake and Bybee? What precisely am I missing?

Looked at the merits? It's the relevant facts that are important, and until there is a final product the facts are uncertain due to contingencies.... If you want to say the MOU is the final product then you have to admit that the 9th said, "the final product may be acceptable to plaintiff." 98%.. Is that empirical evidence of acceptance?

 

[Phoenix]

Fill me in. What other court has looked at the merits besides Wake and Bybee? What precisely am I missing?

Which merits?

What about the merits of a court even starting a trial on an unripe issue? Has any court besides the 9th looked at that?

 

[EastUS1]

We will just see who changes their format for the next filing ......

Indeed! Worlds turn and empires rise and fall on such momentous events! 🙂

 

[mrbreeze]

Looked at the merits? It's the relevant facts that are important, and until there is a final product the facts are uncertain due to contingencies.... If you want to say the MOU is the final product then you have to admit that the 9th said, "the final product may be acceptable to plaintiff." 98%.. Is that empirical evidence of acceptance?

but of course!

 

[mrbreeze]

Indeed! Worlds turn and empires rise and fall on such momentous events! 🙂

🙂

 

[A320 Driver]

I'm afraid you guys are conviently forgeting where the court warned you that any list you create will be held up against the nic. You know as well as i do that means it's not really dead. Well that or you're in complete denial.

Bean

Howdy Bean...you haven't missed a thing! 🙂 I'm one of those that hopes the NIC IS held up beside whatever USAPA proposes. I think a jury needs to take a good look at the inequities of the NIC and asked "how would YOU feel if you were placed below a new hire after 15 years of service?" Wake wouldn't allow it but I'm more hopeful this time.