April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

That's not the Judge's order yet, that is AwFOL's proposed order. Read it again.

Maybe if it had been written in all capitals?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Well, I have to sign off. I have to return the phone call of an old aviation buddy I haven't talked to in a while. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's about a recommendation. I seem to be getting hit up a lot lately for those. I wonder why?

Bean

Been getting calls like that also. Sad part is it is probably too late for anybody to try to jump on the bandwagon now.

Once the POR date happens the new hire spots will be going to the AA furloughees per the MOU so somebody that is only trying to get applications in now because of the AA merger have probably missed the boat. They have what is it something like 1400 out? That will wipe out hiring for a while at the combined company from a off the street point of view I would think.

 

[wopr21]

Maybe if it had been written in all capitals?

Been getting calls like that also. Sad part is it is probably too late for anybody to try to jump on the bandwagon now.

Once the POR date happens the new hire spots will be going to the AA furloughees per the MOU so somebody that is only trying to get applications in now because of the AA merger have probably missed the boat. They have what is it something like 1400 out? That will wipe out hiring for a while at the combined company from a off the street point of view I would think.

I dont think 1400 will come back. Maybe 4 to 500

 

[high*flyer]

I've been gone for awhile, is the west still hoping for the NIC?

 

[CallawayGolf]

I've been gone for awhile, is the west still hoping for the NIC?

The situation's the same as it has been since 2007/2008. The Company accepted the NIC and refuses to negotiate for any list USAPA might put forth which would open them up to a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit. The Company has appealed the DJ ruling in district court as lacking any form of relief, and the NMB has parked negotiations pending any actionable decision from a federal court on the matter. The threat of a DFR from one or more west pilots from implementation of a non-NIC list remains as dangerous for USAPA as the day they became the certified CBA for LCC pilots. The only difference is sometime in 2013 it is very likely that more parties (AMR/APA) will join in the fun. The only thing that seems to be a near-certainty at this point is that if the merger goes forward, USAPA will be replaced by APA.

 

[cleardirect]

I see they used all CAPS this time for the parties. Shoulda done it for the court.

So tell us great legal scholar, which one of those is the court talking about being wrong? Of course you did research the local rules and can tell us right. Was it usapa, the company or the west that the judge was talking about? Listed is the party block from each party.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all future documents filed in this action must be captioned according to the party capitalization requirement of LRCiv 7.1(a)(3) (“Party names must be capitalized using proper upper and lower case type.&rdquo😉

ADDINGTON et. al.,
Plaintiffs,
v.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, et. al,
Defendants.

Don ADDINGTON; et al.,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, et al.,
Defendants.

Don ADDINGTON; John BOSTIC;
Mark BURMAN; Afshin IRANPOUR;
Roger VELEZ; Steve WARGOCKI;
Michael J. SOHA; Rodney Albert
BRACKIN; and George MALIGA, on
behalf of themselves and all similarly
situated former America West Pilots,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, an
unincorporated association; and US
AIRWAYS, INC., a Delaware
corporation,
Defendants.

 

[Beancounter]

Been getting calls like that also. Sad part is it is probably too late for anybody to try to jump on the bandwagon now.

Once the POR date happens the new hire spots will be going to the AA furloughees per the MOU so somebody that is only trying to get applications in now because of the AA merger have probably missed the boat. They have what is it something like 1400 out? That will wipe out hiring for a while at the combined company from a off the street point of view I would think.

The numbers I've heard from AA pilots is 600 to 700 that can or will return. There is the possibility thay by the time of the POR there may not be any furloughs left at AA.

Bean

 

[3dtv]

The situation's the same as it has been since 2007/2008. The Company accepted the NIC and refuses to negotiate for any list USAPA might put forth which would open them up to a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit. The Company has appealed the DJ ruling in district court as lacking any form of relief, and the NMB has parked negotiations pending any actionable decision from a federal court on the matter. The threat of a DFR from one or more west pilots from implementation of a non-NIC list remains as dangerous for USAPA as the day they became the certified CBA for LCC pilots. The only difference is sometime in 2013 it is very likely that more parties (AMR/APA) will join in the fun. The only thing that seems to be a near-certainty at this point is that if the merger goes forward, USAPA will be replaced by APA.

You forgot the part where there is no NIC, no legal order for NIC and the last court statement allowing USAPA to use other than NIC. Just a minor over site on your part.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The situation's the same as it has been since 2007/2008. The Company accepted the NIC and refuses to negotiate for any list USAPA might put forth which would open them up to a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit. The Company has appealed the DJ ruling in district court as lacking any form of relief, and the NMB has parked negotiations pending any actionable decision from a federal court on the matter. The threat of a DFR from one or more west pilots from implementation of a non-NIC list remains as dangerous for USAPA as the day they became the certified CBA for LCC pilots. The only difference is sometime in 2013 it is very likely that more parties (AMR/APA) will join in the fun. The only thing that seems to be a near-certainty at this point is that if the merger goes forward, USAPA will be replaced by APA.

He forgot the part about the west side approving the MOU with APA by 98%, and that paragraph #4 says that when it becomes effective ALL PREVIOUSLY NEGOTIATED agreements are null and void. He also left out a HUGE part, when the Ninth Circuit AND the Arizona courts BOTH agreed that USAPA was free to negotiate any SLI it deemed appropriate.

They're still looking for a 7-11 to cash their "lottery ticket".

 

[Bill Brasky]

So tell us great legal scholar, which one of those is the court talking about being wrong? Of course you did research the local rules and can tell us right. Was it usapa, the company or the west that the judge was talking about? Listed is the party block from each party.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all future documents filed in this action must be captioned according to the party capitalization requirement of LRCiv 7.1(a)(3) (“Party names must be capitalized using proper upper and lower case type.&rdquo😉

Dude, I assure you that the Court wasn't making it up. You're an IDIOT.

 

[Beancounter]

I'm afraid you guys are conviently forgeting where the court warned you that any list you create will be held up against the nic. You know as well as i do that means it's not really dead. Well that or you're in complete denial.

Bean

 

[Bill Brasky]

I'm afraid you guys are conviently forgeting where the court warned you that any list you create will be held up against the nic. You know as well as i do that means it's not really dead. Well that or you're in complete denial.

Bean

Not denial. Reality. DOH and LOS have both been litigated and shown IN COURTS to meet the criteria of a "wide range of reasonableness". You can file another DFR, but YOU'LL LOSE (again).

You guys are done, you just can't let it go. Why don't you just wait and see how it shakes out?

 

[Phoenix]

The situation's the same as it has been since 2007/2008. The Company accepted the NIC and refuses to negotiate for any list USAPA might put forth which would open them up to a hybrid DFR/collusion lawsuit. The Company has appealed the DJ ruling in district court as lacking any form of relief, and the NMB has parked negotiations pending any actionable decision from a federal court on the matter. The threat of a DFR from one or more west pilots from implementation of a non-NIC list remains as dangerous for USAPA as the day they became the certified CBA for LCC pilots. The only difference is sometime in 2013 it is very likely that more parties (AMR/APA) will join in the fun. The only thing that seems to be a near-certainty at this point is that if the merger goes forward, USAPA will be replaced by APA.

Why are you so serious? I think he was just casting bait.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You forgot the part where there is no NIC, no legal order for NIC and the last court statement allowing USAPA to use other than NIC. Just a minor over site on your part.

There is no NIC? Then what does the Company's appeal on the DJ reference in terms of harm from accepting USAPA's list?

According to the Ninth USAPA is free to negotiate under the pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR.

According to Silver USAPA use of a non-NIC list does not constitute a DFR so long as it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. The merits of that LUP question were already determined once and both the lower court and the dissenting justice at the Ninth (looking past ripeness to the merits) said there could be no legitimate union purpose for discarding the result of a binding arbitration process which results in advancing east pilots to the harm of the west pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

Not denial. Reality. DOH and LOS have both been litigated and shown IN COURTS to meet the criteria of a "wide range of reasonableness". You can file another DFR, but YOU'LL LOSE (again).

You guys are done, you just can't let it go. Why don't you just wait and see how it shakes out?

Has it been show in every case in every court that DOH/LOS is always within a wide range of reasonableness?

Were those cases litigated before or after an arbitrated list?

Just because it happen before does not mean it will always happen.