April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

It is career expectations at the time of merger. It's independent of the merger, hence the maintain career expectations part. I'm afraid pilots that are furloughed from a soon to liquidate company do not have career expectations.

Bean

"Much of West’s claimed superiority over East, in terms of what it brought to the merger, is speculative. There is, for example, scant support for West’s claim that, post-merger, “the focus of lender anxiety is clearly on the side of U.S.
about Us, November 25,2005. Local 545 ex. 5, p. 5. The quote is derived from CEO Doug Parker’s published answer to a question of why it was necessary for AWA to integrate when “it wasn’t AWA that needed the merger in order to survive?” At the hearing, Arbitrator Harris properly overruled AWA’s hearsay objection. The about US publication is not, as East counsel suggests, a business record. However, the statement may be accepted not for the purpose of proving the truth of the matter asserted - - that AWA was facing imminent bankruptcy -- but rather, that AWA Executives perceived a rocky future as justification for pursuing the merger.
or that, following the merger, with the AWA CEO assuming the helm in Phoenix, “the predator king gets to have the top job, to grant fiefs to his chieftains, and to fly the flag over his castle!”22 Rather, what appears from the evidence is that, post-merger, the companies adopted a mixed management team and that, significantly, they adopted the US Airways collective bargaining agreement as applicable to the combined TWU force. Thus, setting aside the respective claims of who came with what, the hard evidence as to what was achieved shows significant parity as between carriers, each of which contributed complementary elements to a combined operation."

Excerpt from Richard Bloch, arbiter of the US Airways, AWA dispatchers.

http://jamhoff.com/P...cisionAward.pdf

 

[Claxon]

Did you also look at the west filing?
Don ADDINGTON; et al.,

Plaintiffs,
vs.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, et al.,

Defendants.

Copied from document 11-1 Harper declaration. Look it up.

Yes the west heading and the court order match. I did not lie. They match because the west did it correctly. Usapa was wrong. Can you east pilots never admit a single mistake?

Karmais a #### and you east guys are about to get beat down.

Now admit you were wrong and I did not lie.

We both provided our side, let the readers decide. Hopefully they have better things to do.

 

[Claxon]

United Air Lines Merger Committee
Pre-Hearing Statement
April 11, 2013

Excerpt;

"I. THE EVOLUTION OF ALPA MERGER POLICY

We turn at the outset to a discussion of ALPA Merger Policy and how it was impacted by the most significant Award in the modern history of Merger Policy: America West-US Airways (Nicolau 2007).1 The consequences that flowed from that Award – for thousands of pilots at US Airways and America West and for ALPA itself – are profound and disturbing. More to the point, the changes to Merger Policy that followed, and that are currently in effect, are far reaching and will have a determinant impact on this Board’s responsibilities and the outcome of this case."

IMHO. United pilots are telling ALPA, in many of their opening statements, they will leave the union if they even think like this is going to be, the attempted, Nicolau rerun.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Did you also look at the west filing?
Don ADDINGTON; et al.,

Plaintiffs,
vs.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, et al.,

Defendants.

Copied from document 11-1 Harper declaration. Look it up.

Yes the west heading and the court order match. I did not lie. They match because the west did it correctly. Usapa was wrong. Can you east pilots never admit a single mistake?

Karmais a #### and you east guys are about to get beat down.

Now admit you were wrong and I did not lie.

That DOES NOT match the court order. NOT the proposed order, which, since it was DONE BY YOUR INCOMPETENT LAWYERS IS INCORRECT. The Court order is, as the Judge insisted, in upper and lower case. Therefore, YOU LIED.

And, by the way, you've ALREADY LOST. You are certainly right about karma. Trying to steal the jobs of folks that were here long before you has ALREADY cost you.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Try to take a little off the billing from your inexplicable attorney's, you deserve it.

http://leonidas.cact..._Harper_ExA.pdf

That invoice is from 2009. You can bet that it's at least twice that now, probably three times that.


Yep. Karma.

 

[snapthis]

Did you also look at the west filing?
Don ADDINGTON; et al.,

Plaintiffs,
vs.
US AIRLINE PILOTS ASS’N, et al.,

Defendants.

Copied from document 11-1 Harper declaration. Look it up.

Yes the west heading and the court order match. I did not lie. They match because the west did it correctly. Usapa was wrong. Can you east pilots never admit a single mistake?

Karmais a #### and you east guys are about to get beat down.

Now admit you were wrong and I did not lie.

BB's all ticked off we brought Harper to their little boys club.

 

[Bill Brasky]

BB's all ticked off we brought Harper to their little boys club.

If you're talking about me, I'm not ticked at all; just trying to bring you guys back to reality. You're not gonna get your lottery ticket, and you're going to have to pay your dues, just like everyone else.

I also don't think it's going to be a three list deal. It's going to be USAPA's DOH + C&Rs and APA's list. Don't like it, too bad.

 

[cleardirect]

That DOES NOT match the court order. NOT the proposed order, which, since it was DONE BY YOUR INCOMPETENT LAWYERS IS INCORRECT. The Court order is, as the Judge insisted, in upper and lower case. Therefore, YOU LIED.

And, by the way, you've ALREADY LOST. You are certainly right about karma. Trying to steal the jobs of folks that were here long before you has ALREADY cost you.

The order signed by the judge matchs the filing by the west.

This is simple even you should understand.

You are either to stupid to to get it or to hard headed to admit you are wrong.

Itis the usapa filing that did not use the entire name or both upper and lower case letters. No denying it usapa filed incorrectly.

If you can't see that or admit it you are a lost cause and not worth replying any more.

 

[Graceson]

It is career expectations at the time of merger. It's independent of the merger, hence the maintain career expectations part. I'm afraid pilots that are furloughed from a soon to liquidate company do not have career expectations.

Bean

I have to agree with you, Bean.

You're one of the few, except maybe Parker, who knew from careful evaluation that USAirways had no intrinsic value. The two of you knew that that failing enterprise could bring no measure of equivalent worth to an already thriving concern.

Hell, the two of you probably shared a beer looking at each other in the mirror across the bar, inwardly smiling. Knowing with certainty that United, Delta, and American were already scouting your property out west. They wanted you. They needed you. Little did they know that the west was scouting them.

You turn to each other, nod, click the necks of your beer. Yes, little did they know they were the prey and you the preditor. Why not, you say to Parker as you wipe your chin with the edge of you wrist. Why not that little enterprise out east. They'll slow us down, sure. But why not start with them. It'll confuse and confound the enemy. They'll never see it coming. It'll take time, but we'll strengthen their network with our feed.

And as for those employees, hell, the poor bastards should just be happy we... Well, you know... After all, they brought nothing to the picNIC.

 

[Claxon]

The order signed by the judge matchs the filing by the west.

This is simple even you should understand.

You are either to stupid to to get it or to hard headed to admit you are wrong.

Itis the usapa filing that did not use the entire name or both upper and lower case letters. No denying it usapa filed incorrectly.

If you can't see that or admit it you are a lost cause and not worth replying any more.

Being a west pilot and army of lyingitas legal intern keeps you very busy on this forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhoos1oY404

 

[Walmartgreeter]

U·S AIRWAYS
4000 E. Sky Harbor Blvd.
Phoenix, AZ 85034

September 26, 2008

Captain John McIlvenna

Phoenix, Arizona 85044

Re: Transition Agreement Grievance

Dear Captain McIlvenna:

This will respond to the grievance dated July 30, 2008, regarding your downgrade to a First Officer position while East pilots junior to you on the seniority list issued by Arbitrator George Nicolau pursuant to the ALPA merger policy continue to hold Captain positions. Because the underlying claims you have asserted arise under the terms of the Transition Agreement that was reached with ALPA on September 23, 2005, please be advised that the Company and USAPA have agreed to process your grievance in accordance with the procedures set forth in Section X of the Transition Agreement.

Although, by its terms, the Transition Agreement provides for the submission of issues for resolution by the "parties" to that Agreement (i.e., the airline(s) and the
union), the Company and USAPA have agreed, on a non-precedential, non-referable basis, to allow your grievance to proceed through the dispute resolution processes of the Transition Agreement.

In your grievance, you contend that the Company and ALPA suspended negotiations over the terms of a single agreement covering the East and the West pilots in June 2007, and that such negotiations did not resume for at least twelve (12) months after the issuance of the seniority integration award issued by Arbitrator Nicolau on May 1, 2007.

According to your grievance, the Company was therefore obligated to commence Operational Pilot Integration under Section VI of the Transition Agreement by implementing Arbitrator Nicolau's award no later than May 1, 2008, twelve months after that award was issued. You believe that, under the Nicolau award, your position on the combined seniority list would allow you to retain your present Captain position, and you would not have to be downgraded to a First Officer job.

The Company disagrees both with your recitation of the facts involved in this dispute and with your interpretation of the terms of the Transition Agreement. Negotiations over the terms of a single agreement were never suspended by the Association or the Company, and, in any event, there is no requirement set forth in the Transition Agreement that the Nicolau award be implemented or that operational integration occurs because of a hiatus in such negotiations.

Accordingly, your grievance is denied.

Should you disagree with this decision, you may refer this matter to a Board of Adjustment in accordance with the terms of Section X of the Transition Agreement. You should coordinate the process for referring the case to the Adjustment Board with your certified bargaining representative, USAPA.

Beth Holdren-
Managing Director Labor Relations, Flight

Cc: Captain Ed Bular, Senior Vice President Flight Operations/lnflight
Captain Lyle Hogg, Vice President Flight Operations
Mike Finn, Director Crew Planning
Linda Malone, Manager Employee/Labor Relations
Tracy Parrella, USAPA Rep

"No."

Greeter

 

[Phoenix]

The merger policy was career expectations. They were stapled because, they were, wait for it, wait for it..........FURLOUGHED.

Alex, I'd like pilots stuck in the past, that can't read for $500 please.

Bean

Stuck in the past... he said "stuck in the past"

 

[FL430]

United Air Lines Merger Committee
Pre-Hearing Statement
April 11, 2013

Excerpt;

"I. THE EVOLUTION OF ALPA MERGER POLICY

We turn at the outset to a discussion of ALPA Merger Policy and how it was impacted by the most significant Award in the modern history of Merger Policy: America West-US Airways (Nicolau 2007).1 The consequences that flowed from that Award – for thousands of pilots at US Airways and America West and for ALPA itself – are profound and disturbing. More to the point, the changes to Merger Policy that followed, and that are currently in effect, are far reaching and will have a determinant impact on this Board’s responsibilities and the outcome of this case."

IMHO. United pilots are telling ALPA, in many of their opening statements, they will leave the union if they even think like this is going to be, the attempted, Nicolau rerun.

And what has good old George Nicolau done since our arbitration? Nothing, absolutely nothing! Any of you westies care to guess why?

 

[traderjake]

And what has good old George Nicolau done since our arbitration? Nothing, absolutely nothing! Any of you westies care to guess why?

I'm not a West pilot but here's my guess......... He's tired of having idiots second guess him.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yet usapa has not or does not have a LUP.

Yes they do. Your opinion is USAPA doesn't, but so far your "opinion", including those of your legal experts, have yet to disprove otherwise in the courts. Wide range of reasonableness, definition of seniority in the courts, only ALPA merger policy, unenforceable contract provisions, I can name many more. You have lost, YOU WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE. SYIC. Oh, and say high to McIlvenna and your AwFOL gang.