Attitude Adjustment - Think About It

[AAmech]

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On 1/11/2003 3:35:29 PM Hopeful wrote:

How about OBSCENE executive compensation?

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If you think Carty's compensation is Obscene now wait untill AA goes Chap 11 and we get a new our CEO. He'll easily get 2-3 mil in salary (not Carty's mesely$600,000) plus bonuses and HUGE stock options. And lets not forget the signing bonus for a mil or two just to get him to take the job. All this while WE go thru the same pay and benifit cuts that U and UA employees are getting. We have High Class problems now. We have NOT seen obscene!!!

 

[AAmech]

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On 1/11/2003 2:24:51 PM HI-LOCK wrote:




A lot of the problems that management have created can't be fixed quickly enough.We have too many different fleet types and too many different variations WITHIN fleet types.

1-We have more than 1 interior type in our MD80's
2-We have B757 Overwater and Non-Overwater types.What in in hell were the A/C buyers thinking?
3-The B-757 fleet has 2 different types of PSU assemblies.Do you understand what this does to the cost of spare parts inventories and maintenance time in the field?
These are just a few examples of an unlimited number of gross mistakes made by management that cannot be corrected easily or cheaply.
Southwest beats us because of the cost effective standarization policies in their airline.Their wages are not that much different than ours.

These problems have put us in a DEEP hole that may not be possible to dig out without BK.We cannot control outside factors which affect the airline business but we need to correct our own stupidity.
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WN beats us because while thier employees are payed wages similar to ours. One of their employees does the work of about three of ours. Yes thier fleet standardization does help but lets not get carried away with that. WN has 737-200's, 300's and now 700's which are all different planes with a hodgepodge of different interiors and different cockpit configurations.

 

[RV4]

[FONT size=3]Think about this then:[BR][BR]People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.[BR][/FONT]

 

[HI-LOCK]

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On 1/11/2003 4:23:05 PM RV4 wrote:







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A lot of the problems that management have created can't be fixed quickly enough.We have too many different fleet types and too many different variations WITHIN fleet types.

1-We have more than 1 interior type in our MD80's
2-We have B757 Overwater and Non-Overwater types.What in in hell were the A/C buyers thinking?
3-The B-757 fleet has 2 different types of PSU assemblies.Do you understand what this does to the cost of spare parts inventories and maintenance time in the field?
These are just a few examples of an unlimited number of gross mistakes made by management that cannot be corrected easily or cheaply.
Southwest beats us because of the cost effective standarization policies in their airline.Their wages are not that much different than ours.

These problems have put us in a DEEP hole that may not be possible to dig out without BK.We cannot control outside factors which affect the airline business but we need to correct our own stupidity.

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[FONT size=3]More oppurtunities and they can be fixed quickly:

Ground all MD-80's except the dominating interior.

Ground 767-200's and use 757's. Standardizing the fleet.

This reduced capacity will increase ticket prices for profit. I feel sure that you do not want management to prove how quickly they can fix these problems you claim cannot be done. Only thing slowing them is our labor agreements and job security clauses. And WAR will elminate that obstacle and you will see QUICK alright.

The outside factors you should be concerned with are lowering of wages amongst your competitors.

Now, what can we do QUICKLY about your attitude? Give us your seniority date and I bet we can determine how quickly that can be addressed also.

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This attitude is brought to you by 15+ years of observing stupid management decisions at AA If you had read my post on other threads you would know that I said the A-300'S and F-100's should have been parked yesterday.Why do we have 1 manager per dock position at TULE? One per hangar is what we use to have under RC's leadership.

 

[grndproxwarning]

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On 1/11/2003 716 PM AAmech wrote:

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On 1/11/2003 3:35:29 PM Hopeful wrote:

How about OBSCENE executive compensation?

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If you think Carty's compensation is Obscene now wait untill AA goes Chap 11 and we get a new our CEO. He'll easily get 2-3 mil in salary (not Carty's mesely$600,000) plus bonuses and HUGE stock options. And lets not forget the signing bonus for a mil or two just to get him to take the job. All this while WE go thru the same pay and benifit cuts that U and UA employees are getting. We have High Class problems now. We have NOT seen obscene!!!
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Do you really think Don cares about 600,000
He spends more than that on his golf balls...
He"s got over 50,000,000.00 in stock.

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 8:30:17 PM grndproxwarning wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Do you really think Don cares about 600,000[BR]He spends more than that on his golf balls...[BR]He"s got over 50,000,000.00 in stock. [/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Unexercised stock options are worth about as much as the paper they are written on. Stock that is still held holds the potential to drop in value. Has he sold $50 million in stock? If not, then he has abosoultely zilch in realized gains. None. How about he give you some stock certificates with the stipulation that you can't sell them until he does. Would you be willing to take a pay cut for it? [/P]

 

[HI-LOCK]

AA Mech

Are you an ex WN employee? If not,how would you know that their employees are 3 times more productive than AA employees?Are you saying that their line mechanic changes a brake 3 times faster than an AA mechanic?I work with AA mechanics in TUL that I would put against any mechanic in the world.

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/11/2003 554 PM Hopeful wrote:
[P]KCFLYER: Yes that would do it for me. Carty is testifying before congress how they have to change the Railway Labor Act and force settlements on airline unions, If an arbritation panel decides to cut salaries, then we have to eat it. But who is going to determine executive compensation?[BR]So when the companies are able to make mega profits again after having slashed labor's wages, then the executives can give themselves more bonuses and stock options. Does that seem right to you, non-union KCFLYER?[BR][BR]The executives can't wait to have the government change the pension plans in this nation to relieve companies of the pension obligations. People nearing retirement can lose up to 40% of their credited pensions when this passes. But the execs don't have to worry about pensions when they receive mult-million dollar packages.[BR][BR]I understand the top dogs compensation not making too much of a dent, but if they are crying to government about labor costs, they have to look to themselves and their greed whenever they mention labor wages and work rules.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]Hopeful - we're talking apples and oranges here. First, I don't believe that cuts in labor costs alone is going to turn any airline around. [BR][BR]Second, I used to work for one company that overpaid it's executives while slashing staff. I cured that problem by leaving. [BR][BR]Third, don't look now, but pensions have slowly been going away these past few years. When a company (GM for example) pays more folks to stay home than they currently have employed - then somethings got to change. [BR][BR]Finally, executives in every industry are pretty much overpaid. That unfortunatly is life. If it bothers you so much that you cannot trust your managment farther than you can throw them, then I would suggest that you start your own company where you ARE the "overpaid managment" and you can pay your employees what you feel is "fair". But you are blinded by one issue and apparently are ready to put your company on the ropes because of it. Anybody who feels that sacrifice must occur has been "drinking the kool-aid". You know, in the course of a year, the employees at Southwest have been accused of "draging the industry down" with their lower pay. Now - amazingly - they "aren't paid that much less than us". Over the past 30 years, they have been encouraged by managment to live in the good times as if they are bad times. They beleived managment. When times turned bad, they didn't get laid off, they didn't take pay cuts, they didn't face the threat of bankrupty. And if you'll take a look at their SEC reports, you'll see that Herb exercised over $40 million in stock options - throwing him right up into the ranks of "overpaid executives". But... the employees over there aren't focused on why Herb would have cashed out so many options. They are focused instead on keeping their company profitable. I guess they understand that without a company, life could get REAL hard.

 

[Hopeful]

KCFLYER: I think you missed my point. No one is doubting that sacrifices have to be made by all. But why does the immediate solution always point to wages? Why does bankruptcy judge allow "bonuses" for new CEOs and then order paycuts for the workforce? To get the best man for the job? Carty himself has said that by foregoing all 3% raises due in February,it will only save $130,000,000. ONLY SAVE $130,000,000! It either means that more paycuts are around the corner and/or major work rule changes must take place.

For instance, in the aircraft maintenance end of it, it means shutting down at least one major overhaul facility and contracting out more and more of the heavy checks. As United has stated, most of that work will not stay in the good ol US of A. "Them jobs are a goin cross the border and overseas"!

In the Pilot end of it, it might mean flying many more hours than now flown and changing the "SCOPE" claus which affects ALL employees.
And please don't preach to me about "leaving the company, starting my own so I can pay myself "obscene" management wages. I am about 10 years away from retirement and will be here till the end if necessary.

I do not fault executives for being hightly compensated! I fault them when they grant themselves OVER INFLATED salaries. And when this vicious cycle of downsizing and mass layoffs have ended, maybe years from now, and the majors have become leaner and more efficient, the board of directors can give the CEO another $100,000,000.00 in stock options as an "atta boy," give him more retirement credit than actually time worked, while the people whose jobs they slashed and lives they changed can open the newspaper one day, read the business section, and say "Yep, That CEO deserves all that $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"

 

[RV4]

[BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/12/2003 4:25:01 AM HI-LOCK wrote: [BR][BR]AA Mech[BR][BR]I work with AA mechanics in TUL that I would put against any mechanic in the world.----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Are you talking about those folks wearing snakes, injustice for all, political stop signs, skull-n-crossbones, and aviation inmate shirts while roping saw horses at lunch time while complaining about no overtime and turnstile security fences. You mean those have been upgraded from building cleaners, secretaries, security guards, credit union, and human resource positions into "mechanics"? [BR][BR]I agree there a some really good mechanics in Tulsa, but they are becoming outnumbered by the relatives.

 

[will fix for food]

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On 1/11/2003 4:23:05 PM RV4 wrote:

Only thing slowing them is our labor agreements and job security clauses.

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Can you expand on this? Where specifically do you see the problems and how would you fix them?

 

[AAmech]

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On 1/12/2003 8:55:02 AM RV4 wrote:




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On 1/12/2003 4:25:01 AM HI-LOCK wrote:

AA Mech

I work with AA mechanics in TUL that I would put against any mechanic in the world.----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]

Are you talking about those folks wearing snakes, injustice for all, political stop signs, skull-n-crossbones, and aviation inmate shirts while roping saw horses at lunch time while complaining about no overtime and turnstile security fences. You mean those have been upgraded from building cleaners, secretaries, security guards, credit union, and human resource positions into "mechanics"?

I agree there a some really good mechanics in Tulsa, but they are becoming outnumbered by the relatives.
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What your talking about RV4 is not a TUL problem but an INDUSTRY problem! Way too many people working in this field who have no interest in it and don't belong in it. They got into it for the paycheck.
We have a lot of really great mechanics at AA but unfortunatly we have way too much deadweight who stand around complaining about the company or union all day! Sometimes its downright depressing!

 

[Steiner]

Maintenance needs annual proficiency testing like the pilots have to go through, or recurrent license testing. The A&P ticket shouldn't be good for life. Too many fakes out there. (But as we have seen with FAR part 66 revision, too many groups lobbied that the increased safety would affect their costs. Bummer.)

 

[KCFlyer]

Sorry, duplicate post. Any administrators know when the rich text format windows will allow you to submit and will show something more than a "letter box" text window?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

AAmech, Buck;
What in **** is/has happened to RV4(AMFA DAVE)???????

Either dave's been "Born AAgain", or he's inhaling some pretty strong SH*T (Off the job of course) !!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's