AUG/SEPT 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Ramp Rogue]

What are the least, and the most, amount of hours that parttimers are scheduled in your station per day?

Rogue.....

 

[Jester]

The question is... why don't the members see and appreciate this?

Ograc,

I would be the first to say there are benefits to having the IAM, although I have said many times before that the Leadership could be much better. I think people tend to look at what others have versus what others don't have. FSAs look at United and Southwest, and compare themselves against them versus what what a contractor has without a union (which isn't much in comparison), and then complain about their union. So it is a matter of selective comparisons in which members forget about those who are worse off (as we would be) without a union. In fact, ironically, sometimes the threat alone of a union would force many companies to pay union level wages and benefits to keep a union out of the organization.

In addition, and this is a Leadership matter, members observe the cronyism and the glacial pace of grievances and contract negotiations, and wonder as to what good is the union? In that respect, I do blame the Leadership because it reminds me of those nations who suffer from widespread poverty while the nation is embroiled in corruption, and the obvious question is that why does the Leadership allow this to happen? Simple reason... they benefit from the corruption, favoritism and cronyism on the personal level, and they are the ones who make the rules or not enforcing the laws already in place.

Until we have a Leadership which is responsive, responsible, transparent, and accountable, the Membership will continue to provide lukewarm support of this union as they ultimately feel they are just stooges for a suspect cabal of self-serving glad-handers around election time.

Jester.

 

[cltrat]

What are the least, and the most, amount of hours that parttimers are scheduled in your station per day?

Rogue.....

Ramp I am not 100% but I believe it ranges from 4 to 6 here

 

[rockit2]

It's time to put the past behind us and focus on moving forward. The contractual losses suffered through two bankruptcies and one transition agreement will take multiple contracts to recover. We must begin the recovery, as a group, with this Section 6 negotiations of our contract. The first step to recovery is solidarity and support of your union and NC Committee.
ograc

I do believe the Union is neaded to fend off the company but it still has not saved jobs at US Fleet, look at the cities served and look at how many are out sourced. Look at BUF, LOCKED OUT before there actual closing date. The union is complacent and will only react to an action, no pro action or offensive movement to benifent is members. I have friend (s) who landed in crew scheduling and are making four bucks an hour more and not paying union dues, with practically the same ins, holidays,and sick time. I am just tired of all the retoric, that we are moving forward. I would have more respect from the agc group, if they would just come clean and say...." we can't get the company to budge ". Spend more time on your surf and turf dinners and conventions and please, just to save the union a few bucks, keep your cheap ### watch and let me retire with my cut pension in peace.

 

[ograc]

Ograc,

I would be the first to say there are benefits to having the IAM, although I have said many times before that the Leadership could be much better. I think people tend to look at what others have versus what others don't have. FSAs look at United and Southwest, and compare themselves against them versus what what a contractor has without a union (which isn't much in comparison), and then complain about their union. So it is a matter of selective comparisons in which members forget about those who are worse off (as we would be) without a union. In fact, ironically, sometimes the threat alone of a union would force many companies to pay union level wages and benefits to keep a union out of the organization.

In addition, and this is a Leadership matter, members observe the cronyism and the glacial pace of grievances and contract negotiations, and wonder as to what good is the union? In that respect, I do blame the Leadership because it reminds me of those nations who suffer from widespread poverty while the nation is embroiled in corruption, and the obvious question is that why does the Leadership allow this to happen? Simple reason... they benefit from the corruption, favoritism and cronyism on the personal level, and they are the ones who make the rules or not enforcing the laws already in place.

Until we have a Leadership which is responsive, responsible, transparent, and accountable, the Membership will continue to provide lukewarm support of this union as they ultimately feel they are just stooges for a suspect cabal of self-serving glad-handers around election time.

Jester.

 

[ograc]

Ograc,

I would be the first to say there are benefits to having the IAM, although I have said many times before that the Leadership could be much better. I think people tend to look at what others have versus what others don't have. FSAs look at United and Southwest, and compare themselves against them versus what what a contractor has without a union (which isn't much in comparison), and then complain about their union. So it is a matter of selective comparisons in which members forget about those who are worse off (as we would be) without a union. In fact, ironically, sometimes the threat alone of a union would force many companies to pay union level wages and benefits to keep a union out of the organization.

In addition, and this is a Leadership matter, members observe the cronyism and the glacial pace of grievances and contract negotiations, and wonder as to what good is the union? In that respect, I do blame the Leadership because it reminds me of those nations who suffer from widespread poverty while the nation is embroiled in corruption, and the obvious question is that why does the Leadership allow this to happen? Simple reason... they benefit from the corruption, favoritism and cronyism on the personal level, and they are the ones who make the rules or not enforcing the laws already in place.

Until we have a Leadership which is responsive, responsible, transparent, and accountable, the Membership will continue to provide lukewarm support of this union as they ultimately feel they are just stooges for a suspect cabal of self-serving glad-handers around election time.

Jester.

Jester,
Very insightful thoughts and opinions. I particularly agree with your assesment of the members' viewpoints concerning the leadership of our union and district. Past leadership within the district was certainly guilty of cronyism and favoritism. The current leadership was elected four years ago and subsequently re-elected to another term with the promise of sweeping change. All they ask is for a little patience. IMO... to date we are still awaiting results. To date... we still have glacial progress concerning grievances, arbitration hearings and contract negotiations. The glad handing of elections is over. It's time for results from those elected.
ograc

 

[ograc]

I do believe the Union is neaded to fend off the company but it still has not saved jobs at US Fleet, look at the cities served and look at how many are out sourced. Look at BUF, LOCKED OUT before there actual closing date. The union is complacent and will only react to an action, no pro action or offensive movement to benifent is members. I have friend (s) who landed in crew scheduling and are making four bucks an hour more and not paying union dues, with practically the same ins, holidays,and sick time. I am just tired of all the retoric, that we are moving forward. I would have more respect from the agc group, if they would just come clean and say...." we can't get the company to budge ". Spend more time on your surf and turf dinners and conventions and please, just to save the union a few bucks, keep your cheap ### watch and let me retire with my cut pension in peace.

rockit2,
The union has not been able to save jobs because the union (past Negotiating Committees and the membership) agreed to outsourcing language in the CBA. Again, the company is only taking what the union and the membership agreed to sacrfice with past contract negotiations and subsequent contract ratifications. Now that the company has their "foot in the door" regarding outsourcing it will be an uphill battle to recover from such a blunder. IMO... unless we recover from this issue, through contract negotiations, the catastrophic results this has already had on many of our members, will be experienced by countless more. The wolf is at the door. The question is... how much credence is given to this issue by the current NC, the District Leadership, the International and above all the membership.
ograc

 

[Watdahail?]

I do believe the Union is neaded to fend off the company but it still has not saved jobs at US Fleet, look at the cities served and look at how many are out sourced. Look at BUF, LOCKED OUT before there actual closing date.
.

What happened in BUF? I heard the Station Manager is a real piece of work.

 

[roabilly]

rockit2,
The union has not been able to save jobs because the union (past Negotiating Committees and the membership) agreed to outsourcing language in the CBA. Again, the company is only taking what the union and the membership agreed to sacrfice with past contract negotiations and subsequent contract ratifications. Now that the company has their "foot in the door" regarding outsourcing it will be an uphill battle to recover from such a blunder. IMO... unless we recover from this issue, through contract negotiations, the catastrophic results this has already had on many of our members, will be experienced by countless more. The wolf is at the door. The question is... how much credence is given to this issue by the current NC, the District Leadership, the International and above all the membership.
ograc

Mr. Cargo,

I’m glad you have the patience of “Job”… because pseudo posters like Rockit, as well as several others are on this site are here to undermine solidarity! Social Media and on-line forums allow for these individuals to anonymously insert counterproductive comments, and ideology while hiding behind screen names. Further, you have NO idea who a lot of these people are… and more than likely, many are actually the same person!

I’ll give you credit though… you are making every effort to make sense in this insane curriculum! Just remember this… the idiots that constantly ####, have probably never been to a Union meeting… never given the contract more than a glance… never served as steward, or volunteered their time… and finally have no clue as to the legalities that govern their own existence as collective bargaining unit in this industry under the restrictive regulations of the Railway Labor Act!

I’ve said this over and over… THE MEMBERSHIP… not the IAM are the true negotiators! Case in point, the Flight Attendants have rejected two tentative agreements after years of negotiations! It does not matter who is at the table… the Membership has the FINAL word!

When the time comes if you don’t like what is presented… friggin’ vote NO… it’s that simple… and quit friggin’ whinin’ you bunch of wussies!

 

[rockit2]

Mr. Cargo,

I’m glad you have the patience of “Job”… because pseudo posters like Rockit, as well as several others are on this site are here to undermine solidarity! Social Media and on-line forums allow for these individuals to anonymously insert counterproductive comments, and ideology while hiding behind screen names. Further, you have NO idea who a lot of these people are… and more than likely, many are actually the same person!

I’ll give you credit though… you are making every effort to make sense in this insane curriculum! Just remember this… the idiots that constantly ####, have probably never been to a Union meeting… never given the contract more than a glance… never served as steward, or volunteered their time… and finally have no clue as to the legalities that govern their own existence as collective bargaining unit in this industry under the restrictive regulations of the Railway Labor Act!

I’ve said this over and over… THE MEMBERSHIP… not the IAM are the true negotiators! Case in point, the Flight Attendants have rejected two tentative agreements after years of negotiations! It does not matter who is at the table… the Membership has the FINAL word!

When the time comes if you don’t like what is presented… friggin’ vote NO… it’s that simple… and quit friggin’ whinin’ you bunch of wussies!

Wrong, Wrong , Wrong.......................I am not dividing solidarity, you can't divide something you don't have. Yes I have supported this union and have held post as high as grievence committee man. I am just telling it like it is. The agc's become complacent, esp. the one's on four year terms. The station I work at is around 1/3 non union, 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 in support, and no agc visits in 11 months. All I'm saying is it's getting old, sixty two dollars a month and no action. If there happens to be a merger and a vote for representation, the IAM wouldn't win. OZ needs to come out into the work force instead of hiding behind the big grey door, cause the munchkins aren't very happy.

 

[freedom]

Wrong, Wrong , Wrong.......................I am not dividing solidarity, you can't divide something you don't have. Yes I have supported this union and have held post as high as grievence committee man. I am just telling it like it is. The agc's become complacent, esp. the one's on four year terms. The station I work at is around 1/3 non union, 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 in support, and no agc visits in 11 months. All I'm saying is it's getting old, sixty two dollars a month and no action. If there happens to be a merger and a vote for representation, the IAM wouldn't win. OZ needs to come out into the work force instead of hiding behind the big grey door, cause the munchkins aren't very happy.

Wrong, Wrong , Wrong.......................I am not dividing solidarity, you can't divide something you don't have. Yes I have supported this union and have held post as high as grievence committee man. I am just telling it like it is. The agc's become complacent, esp. the one's on four year terms. The station I work at is around 1/3 non union, 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 in support, and no agc visits in 11 months. All I'm saying is it's getting old, sixty two dollars a month and no action. If there happens to be a merger and a vote for representation, the IAM wouldn't win. OZ needs to come out into the work force instead of hiding behind the big grey door, cause the munchkins aren't very happy.

In some ways i don't think he's completely off Roa billy ... i have my doubts too about solidarity , and i think we need to WORK on building it now as we have time before the merger ...

We need to REMIND the workers , espeically the Former AWA workers that it wasn't the company being generous that allowed them to top out at 20 dollars an hour with health benfits and flexiable schedules ..

We need to remind our people that if they don't care .... then they can go work for SERVICE AIR , work three times as hard and make 9 dollars an hour with no flight benfits ...

nothing is given to you , you have to work for it ........ and we need to remind our people that they can't just layback and expect a new contract to be GIVEN to them ....

 

[roabilly]

Wrong, Wrong , Wrong.......................I am not dividing solidarity, you can't divide something you don't have. Yes I have supported this union and have held post as high as grievence committee man. I am just telling it like it is. The agc's become complacent, esp. the one's on four year terms. The station I work at is around 1/3 non union, 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 in support, and no agc visits in 11 months. All I'm saying is it's getting old, sixty two dollars a month and no action. If there happens to be a merger and a vote for representation, the IAM wouldn't win. OZ needs to come out into the work force instead of hiding behind the big grey door, cause the munchkins aren't very happy.

All I hear is past tense... "supported"... "held a post"... so forth and so on... whats wrong with doing these things right NOW?
I think you are harboring animosities, more than likely manifested from political aspirations regarding yourself, or someone else that you supported in exchange for a possible position in the Union. The only other plausible scenario is that you are Troll.

Whining in an open internet forum, visible to the public is in no way productive to anyone within the Membership ranks. The F/A's have demonstrated the correct way to communicate... they don't whine... they are demanding a fair agreement through the correct channels!
Maybe you should spend more time observing and learning... grow-up... grow a set... and DO something other than whine!

 

[rockit2]

All I hear is past tense... "supported"... "held a post"... so forth and so on... whats wrong with doing these things right NOW?
I think you are harboring animosities, more than likely manifested from political aspirations regarding yourself, or someone else that you supported in exchange for a possible position in the Union. The only other plausible scenario is that you are Troll.

Whining in an open internet forum, visible to the public is in no way productive to anyone within the Membership ranks. The F/A's have demonstrated the correct way to communicate... they don't whine... they are demanding a fair agreement through the correct channels!
Maybe you should spend more time observing and learning... grow-up... grow a set... and DO something other than whine!

Well, if I believed it would make a difference, I would get active again. I don't think things will change and I have no desire to be the breakroom warrior. If telling it like it is, is called whining so be it. I have no political aspiration for myself or anyone else, I'm just tired of the dues going up and getting nothing for it other than not being an employee at will. There's no comparison between a f/a and a fleet service agent. Plane don't fly without the crew but they sure can fly without a fleet guy. Don't build it up like the IAM is a powerfull union cause there not. I read all the propaganda and the website, I'm not as dumb as you make me out to be, but the reality of the situation is US Fleetservice is not a powerhouse like they want to be.

 

[ograc]

Mr. Cargo,

I’m glad you have the patience of “Job”… because pseudo posters like Rockit, as well as several others are on this site are here to undermine solidarity! Social Media and on-line forums allow for these individuals to anonymously insert counterproductive comments, and ideology while hiding behind screen names. Further, you have NO idea who a lot of these people are… and more than likely, many are actually the same person!

I’ll give you credit though… you are making every effort to make sense in this insane curriculum! Just remember this… the idiots that constantly ####, have probably never been to a Union meeting… never given the contract more than a glance… never served as steward, or volunteered their time… and finally have no clue as to the legalities that govern their own existence as collective bargaining unit in this industry under the restrictive regulations of the Railway Labor Act!

I’ve said this over and over… THE MEMBERSHIP… not the IAM are the true negotiators! Case in point, the Flight Attendants have rejected two tentative agreements after years of negotiations! It does not matter who is at the table… the Membership has the FINAL word!

When the time comes if you don’t like what is presented… friggin’ vote NO… it’s that simple… and quit friggin’ whinin’ you bunch of wussies!

Mr. roabilly,
Thank you for your kind words. Patience and understanding is a virtue. Although you are correct in your assesment, making sense in this curriculum, is challenging at times, I believe it needs to be attempted in an effort to build solidarity. I believe educating the membership is a cornerstone to building solidarity. Before this can be accomplished one has to listen and be open minded to the opinions and posts of the members. Without their input... how can you determine what needs to be fixed? Throughout the US IAM represented system 97% of the membership is disengaged or inactive. The attendance at local lodge meetings is shameful. As a Grievance Committee Chairperson I have many members who never read the contract for themselves. They come to me to read it for them. As Recording Secretary of my local I see the same 3% at every meeting. The IAM's image and environment must change from being exclusive to inclusive. IMO... this will nurture solidarity. We cannot expect to make gains as a group until we address and fix our own "in house" issues. Roabilly, I know I am preaching to the choir concerning the importance of solidarity with you, however, solidarity comes from leadership that listens, respects the opinions of others, finds ways to engage the membership and ultmately rallies the members behind a commom cause for the greater good of all. To lead one must listen.
ograc

 

[freedom]

Has anyone thought about webcasting the local meetings orgac ? it's not super expensive ,nor hard to pull off ...