AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Longevity is not seniority.

Four pilot seniority arbitrations in a row say so.

You're misreading pilot seniority arbitrations. I could argue that in the case of DAL and UAL longevity WAS seniority, since both were adequately preserved, rather than one sacrificed for the sake of the other.

 

[traderjake]

I could argue that in the case of DAL and UAL longevity WAS seniority, since both were adequately preserved, rather than one sacrificed for the sake of the other.

And you would be wrong.

What was the methodology used in all four arbitrations?

All were based on ratios and slotting.

None were based on longevity or DOH .

I was unaware that the UAL CAL arbitration was done.

 

[Piedmont1984]

And you would be wrong.

What was the methodology used in all four arbitrations?

All were based on ratios and slotting.

None were based on longevity.

I was unaware that the UAL CAL arbitration was done.

They were done that way because longevity was not a significant issue. Compare the DAL/NWA lists and you will see that longevity was within a few years of each other in most cases. I'm confident that had the longevity disparity here been limited to that of DAL/NWA, we would still be ALPA and this entire fiasco avoided.

So what four arbitrations of significance are you referring to? BTW, the Republic arbitration has caused plenty of its own problems.

 

[nevergiveup]

IMO....it is a binding arbitration unless it's a windfall to one side or the other. That's what people are forgetting. Case in point. How does a west pilot hired 2 days before I was gain 850 numbers. Explain that plz.....Now, to show you how stupid that is, in my seniority I lost an average of 400-500 numbers..........so how does one pilot, stated above, gain so many. Explain that plz....it shows the inaccuracies of his boondoggle list. And I might point out, this is insignificant to the travesty that was done do the men and woman that sit next to me and what this aribidisgraction has done to them.

Agreed. A huge windfall. Moral to be learned, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." It is the windfall that prevents a CBA. This was clearly noted by the ninth.

 

[Phoenix]

Says the guy who thinks it's OK to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration so he can try to steal another man's job.

Spare us your opinion on the right thing to do.

Its a dispute.

Tastes great, less filling.

Tastes great and Spare your opinion about the filling. Less filling and spare your opinion about the taste.


Whats next? My grandpa can beat you? Or maybe spare your opinion, my hearing aid battery is dead. 😀

 

[Phoenix]

Agreed. A huge windfall. Moral to be learned, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." It is the windfall that prevents a CBA. This was clearly noted by the ninth.

Bingo.

 

[A320 Driver]

Says the guy who thinks it's OK to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration so he can try to steal another man's job.

Spare us your opinion on the right thing to do.

Do you get some kind of prize for giving the VERY SAME LECTURE every time you post on here? How about sparing us the lecture for a while...I think we've all heard it (repeatedly).

Driver...

 

[traderjake]

Do you get some kind of prize for giving the VERY SAME LECTURE every time you post on here? How about sparing us the lecture for a while...I think we've all heard it (repeatedly)..

The truth hits a nerve but apparently doesn't register in the brain.

Tell us what on this board hasn't been said repeatedly.

Does USAPA get a prize for keeping us on LOA 93 while they try to rewrite the seniority list?

 

[jetjok1]

The truth hits a nerve.

Does USAPA get a prize for keeping us on LOA 93 while they try to rewrite the seniority list?

You explained nothing......

 

[traderjake]

Its a dispute.

What's not in dispute is that it's wrong to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration just because you don't like the result.

 

[nic4us]

You want to talk about "society"... denigrating a defendant in a dispute isn't the right thing to do, and unlike the amateur and childish antics on display here, the courts don't take kindly in their own court rooms to what apparently passes for civility here in this romper room (accept maybe in Wake's court room 😀).

You are going to have to be specific about WTF you are talking about.

Who denigrated who and at what court hearing? usapa has filed sooooo many suits I have no idea what you keep complaining about.

BTW...judges also do not like little lawyers who make up BS and use it in their arguments.

 

[nic4us]

Brilliant. Simply brilliant.

The West always talks about "the right thing to do", "integrity matters", and all that "moral righteousness position" stuff... you would think their great moral friend and confidant, the 9th, could get a little common civility and respect... I mean, come on, no one is asking the West to love their enemies, not even to love their friends.. just a casual, insincere, tepid civility toward their great moral friends in the 9th would be a grand improvement toward proving that the West has at least a meager attempt at civility. (Yes I know Nic is not really representative of the West mindset, though she presents herself as such 😀).

You would think that after a fully funded legal defense you east idiots would get a clue regarding West mindset.

 

[nic4us]

Good post, but I do not recall USAPA ever receiving a quality CBA offer from the company to vote on.

I do not recall usapa ever making a legitimate proposal on anything. What I remember is re-opening every single section of an already near complete CBA and demanding unrealistic changes.

Now we have the whole MOU debacle, and lookie here, there will be no vote on that either.

 

[nic4us]

IMO....it is a binding arbitration unless it's a windfall to one side or the other. That's what people are forgetting. Case in point. How does a west pilot hired 2 days before I was gain 850 numbers. Explain that plz.....Now, to show you how stupid that is, in my seniority I lost an average of 400-500 numbers..........so how does one pilot, stated above, gain so many. Explain that plz....it shows the inaccuracies of his boondoggle list. And I might point out, this is insignificant to the travesty that was done do the men and woman that sit next to me and what this aribidisgraction has done to them.

The windfall argument is really BS.

The above stated pilots did not gain at all. That pilot retained (actually lost) some of their relative seniority and the ability to retain the same exact job they had prior to the arbitration. Just like you did. You did not lose 850 numbers or whatever. You retained the same seniority to maintain the same position. Further, the above pilot was not added to your list. Two list were combined.

But, lets take your argument a step further.....you must be completely revolted by the usapa plan of awarding a HUGE...say again...ENORMOUSLY HUGE....windfall to the east at the West's expense. I mean one day I have the seniority to be a mid level line holding captain...and the next some guy with less LOS who was furloughed has my job and I cannot hold my own job again for over ten years and will never recover the position I held a decade earlier.


In other words...you are full of it with the widfall BS.

 

[Phoenix]

You would think that after a fully funded legal defense you east idiots would get a clue regarding West mindset.

I jump seat very often on West planes and none of them have half the issues you do. 😀