AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

Nah, Kirby has an "I Love USAPA" bumpersticker on his Porsche, right next to the LOA-93 vanity plates.

Go back to the one where US spins off the west. That's my personal fave!

 

[nic4us]

Hmm...I'd be interested to see where you get this latest 40 year old fantasy from? The vast majority of merger activity I've personally seen went DOH.

Allegheny/Mohawk was in 1972...40 years ago. since then roughly half of all integrations have been status and position driven. In the last 20 years virtually all integrations have been relative position rankings.

 

[nic4us]

Nicolau was long past competent decisions. He really screwed up the last one. It is an outlier, cast it aside.

Unfortunately for the east they did not take ALPA's advice, and voted in usapa. See, the fact of the matter is we are now long past a timely challenge to the Nic on the only grounds which an arbitration would be vacated.

Fraud or incompetence of the arbitrator. The east sought to invalidate The Nic on the later, saying he formulated an award soo far out of industry practice that it should be vacated.

what the east MEC failed to mention in their lawsuit was Nic's award is actually far inside industry standard practice, and if anything he gave the east too much.

 

[nic4us]

They will find out soon enough they wasted all those years.

I got an idea...why don't you explain to the hundreds of east guys who unnecessarily worked on LOA93 wages for the past 5 about wasted years.

Get back to me when they figure out who cost them well over 100k in wages.

AOL and the West have beaten the tar out of you morons. We lost nothing, but would have under the Seeham "cost neutral" plan.

Hey, ain't payday coming up soon? I know an east captain who is living paycheck to paycheck to put his kids through college. Ya know an extra 100k would have paid for the third son's education. If I were him, I would be far past appeasing the scabs and their union.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I got an idea...why don't you explain to the hundreds of east guys who unnecessarily worked on LOA93 wages for the past 5 about wasted years.

Get back to me when they figure out who cost them well over 100k in wages.

AOL and the West have beaten the tar out of you morons. We lost nothing, but would have under the Seeham "cost neutral" plan.

Hey, ain't payday coming up soon? I know an east captain who is living paycheck to paycheck to put his kids through college. Ya know an extra 100k would have paid for the third son's education. If I were him, I would be far past appeasing the scabs and their union.

You know you really are hilarious, under the NIC, PHX would close and any raise to an EAST pilot would be, given to a WEST pilot displaced EAST, so spare us your BS! AINT GONNA HAPPEN!

 

[nevergiveup]

Unfortunately for the east they did not take ALPA's advice, and voted in usapa. See, the fact of the matter is we are now long past a timely challenge to the Nic on the only grounds which an arbitration would be vacated.

Fraud or incompetence of the arbitrator. The east sought to invalidate The Nic on the later, saying he formulated an award soo far out of industry practice that it should be vacated.

what the east MEC failed to mention in their lawsuit was Nic's award is actually far inside industry standard practice, and if anything he gave the east too much.

Why are you so scared of a 3 way arbitration? You may come out better as you have indicated that the east got too much.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Why are you so scared of a 3 way arbitration? You may come out better as you have indicated that the east got too much.

I don't think it will be a three way. If you look at the history, even with AL/Mohawk ala M./ Bond it has historically only been classes that are "unrepresented" that have been allowed to have a separate standing. I will guess even the TWA guys will NOT get that status. And I am hunkering down for the incoming about how great the "representation" is or is not, but I think the fact someone is actually already part of a union (no matter how much they hate that union, or how bad they think they have been treated) will negate separate classes being granted. We shall see.Greeter (outhouse lawyer)

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think the fact someone is actually already part of a union (no matter how much they hate that union, or how bad they think they have been treated) will negate separate classes being granted. We shall see.Greeter (outhouse lawyer)

It's even more basic than that. If a merger with AA happens, two airlines with two seniority lists will be merged, not three airlines with three lists or two airlines with three lists.

Add to that the automatic DFR suit if the Nic isn't used and Parker won't take any chances.

Jim

 

[Walmartgreeter]

It's even more basic than that. If a merger with AA happens, two airlines with two seniority lists will be merged, not three airlines with three lists or two airlines with three lists.

Add to that the automatic DFR suit if the Nic isn't used and Parker won't take any chances.

Jim

Would that be an "unquestionably ripe" automatic DFR suit? Either way, the initiation of said suit speaks nothing as to the result.Parker is and will be taking big chances, the rewards are too great.To this day, after over 5 years of asking on this forum, I have never, ever heard one response that would tell me how the NIC would ever be actually implemented on this property. Not one.Greeter

 

[luvn737s]

Easy. USAPA goes before the pilot group and says "There is only one Sen. List and it's the NIC. You can vote every contract down you want, but the Sen. List will not change". The TA passes 70-30 and the Nic is implemented.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't think it will be a three way. If you look at the history, even with AL/Mohawk ala M./ Bond it has historically only been classes that are "unrepresented" that have been allowed to have a separate standing. I will guess even the TWA guys will NOT get that status. And I am hunkering down for the incoming about how great the "representation" is or is not, but I think the fact someone is actually already part of a union (no matter how much they hate that union, or how bad they think they have been treated) will negate separate classes being granted. We shall see.Greeter (outhouse lawyer)

So you are suggesting that two unions will represent their respective pilots... the APA list is obvious. The USAPA list... it really doesn't matter since they are at risk of being sued no matter if they use two lists, a Nic list, or a DOH list... USAPA will sing "eeny meeny miny mo" and then brace for an inevitable DFR suit by somebody (as they turn out the light in CLT?), but in the mean time they don't have to worry about and injunction, since injunctions upon unions by a portion of its members don't appear to be in vogue, at least not yet. Maybe Silver will issue an injunction on AA and APA.

If anything ever reaches the pilots, it will pass, whatever it is. Then the unending lawsuits will begin. Heck, aren't some Eastern pilots still paying lawyers to sue somebody?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Nah, Kirby has an "I Love USAPA" bumpersticker on his Porsche, right next to the LOA-93 vanity plates.

Go back to the one where US spins off the west. That's my personal fave!

I love the "Arizona home values are in the toilet and PHX is closing"

My modest house went up 14% in the last month...Phoenix is on it's way up, while Filthydelphia is still a burned out husk....

 

[EastUS1]

Go ask your mom what integrity is, and why you apparently were raised with such disdain for it.

That suggestion's a bit surprising , since it's clearly held hereabouts (in a strange little coven of devoted delusionals), that all one ever need do to determine the full boundaries of superhuman "integrity" is ask some arbitrator.....isn't it? 😉 To even hope to ever achieve your level of enlightenment there...well....I was thinking a more logical process would involve polling arbitratiors/tribal shamans/fortune tellers, perhaps a few street mimes, and of course, some randomly selected asylum inmates..those last in hopes of adding a touch of respectability to the study....

Oops!...I almost forgot to add the obvious idea of printing up some T-shirts...but that would likely detract from the study's inherent dignity., and it's no sure bet that even the asylum inmates would wear them anyway. Even they would likely be sufficiently grounded in some tiny aspect of reality to understand that wearing T-shirts proclaiming "Butterfiies Matter" wouldn't result in their instantly (or ever) growing wings and taking flight 😉 Your group appears far more likely to fall for such complete nonsense..but that's another matter entirely, and outside of the range of the intended study..which is intended to study notions of integrity...as opposed to observing demonstrably delusional states....

 

[EastUS1]

It's not hard to extrapolate that Nicolau wasn't going to be unduly influenced in his arbitration decisions as both sides
here's some excerpts left off of MM's citations in this article:


Rob Manfred, the owners' lead labor negotiator, said, "We were at the point in our relationship where we thought it was good to have someone with a fresh eye."

"It's not hard to extrapolate that Nicolau wasn't going to be unduly influenced...."?

Umm...sure thing. It MUST have been entirely about "integrity"..right? Well...Anyone could immediately see the obvious connection with your notion and the following: "We were at the point in our relationship where we thought it was good to have someone with a fresh eye."...? It seems that any time St. Nic's obviously all-knowing and equally wise processes (that would clearly shame King Solomon on his best day) are even mentioned...well...are you at all familiar with Pavlov's research?...and did you, by chance, believe you heard a metronome, or any bells ringing when you wrote that?

http://psychology.ab...avlovs-dogs.htm

 

[luvn737s]

That suggestion's a bit surprising , since it's clearly held hereabouts (in a strange little coven of devoted delusionals), that all one ever need do to determine the full boundaries of superhuman "integrity" is ask some arbitrator.....isn't it?

No, your mom would probably tell you that you merely have to ABIDE by the ruling as you agreed to at the outset, not slime your way out of it. Bring up self-respect as part of the conversation with her.