AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Yes, the company is under a TA contract, but who are the parties involved with the TA? USAirways and USAPA. Today, Silver told everyone that negotiations with USAPA is all that is required. Parker has his out and will not even blink to slow down the American merger, my guess is that he is very incouraged by this ruling and will move forward even faster. Silver's ruling today just takes one more hurdle out of Parker's way of getting what he wants.

It's unfortunate the NIC screwed it up for all of us....we have all lost in this deal, however, the courts have made so many statements against the NIC.....it will be very hard to prove a DFR at this point.
breeze

You guys never cease to amaze me.

Name one...any one time any court made a statement against the Nic.

Never happened, not once. Yet you claim "so many statements against the Nic".


The 9th specifically told you they did not address the "thorny question"......


Oh well, I guess ignorance is bliss, til it smacks you in the face.

 

[nic4us]

I can't see where there is room for USAPA to establish a super privileged West group for distinct and special negotiating and representation privileges/rights outside of the representation afforded all LCC pilots.

Hey looky here...PHX gets it...now when he comes to terms with the fact that usapa represents all the pilots who are party to a binding arbitration, he might get the fact that usapa has no choice but to negotiate for all its pilots, and that means NIC.

 

[nic4us]

yeah it causes an issue, but we have never been intigrated and all parties still operate as the groups they were prior to 2005. Seems like there should be a way.

Considereing the going forward issues, there will be a certian number of holdouts on both side, BUT with NIC off the table that removes most of the resistance. Every pilot on the east that was hired post 1988 that were absolute no votes due to being stapled under everybody on the west will be open to an agreement, as well as the middle 1/3 of the east pilots that were mostly no votes with anything NIC. Assuming the agreement is fair and balanced as they say I think it will remove most of the resistance from the west captains and the east captains. So even if every single west F/O votes no on such an agreement that is a total of 700 or so pilots. i think that would make it near impossible for any DFR to succeed.

This way every pilot at the airline will be included this time, unlike the NIC disaster that left 1/3 of the east completly out which then scewed the rest of the list into a longevity nightmare. considering that we are dead last on wages east and west and falling farther behind by the day I think something reasonable that includes every pilot on the east and west will have 75% or better support from the total pilot group east and west.

How about FU.

There ain't a West pilot on the property willing to make a deal with a bunch of reneging scumbags, so your hypothesis is DOA.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Hey looky here...PHX gets it...now when he comes to terms with the fact that usapa represents all the pilots who are party to a binding arbitration, he might get the fact that usapa has no choice but to negotiate for all its pilots, and that means NIC.

See the problem is right now it would be nearly impossible to get anything with NIC passed, and that is the best case scenario. Going forward as east retirements ramp up starting in 2 months it will only get harder to get anything with NIC passed since the current bottowm 2/3 of the east list is hosed under NIC.

NIC cannot get passed but USAPA has to negotiate for all.........but anything with the NIC cannot get passed........rinse and repeat.

Something else will have to be the list...unless you want to wait till the end of the decade when 1800+ east guys are retired.

 

[EastUS1]

It ain't Christmas yet!!!

No possible argument there, since jolly old St. Nic sure as heck ain't showed up anywhere. 😉

 

[Keroseneuser]

How about FU.

There ain't a West pilot on the property willing to make a deal with a bunch of reneging scumbags, so your hypothesis is DOA.

Well i know at least 3, spoke to them tonight and they were optimistic like i am that we can finally come up with something non NIC that can get passed so we all get a raise.

 

[Pi brat]

It ain't Christmas yet!!!

True, true, but I'm willing to put about as much money on res jud as you are on bump and flush!

We're just where we were 2 years ago. At least the attorneys are richer.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Did a giant pumpkin show up today? Let us know HP, we have an early idea of your costume! MUTATIS!

Yawn...go ahead try to force DOH and then you get your DFR.

But, bless your hearts, you all think you won something today.

Parker is the one laughing his ass off...

 

[nic4us]

True, true, but I'm willing to put about as much money on res jud as you are on bump and flush!

We're just where we were 2 years ago. At least the attorneys are richer.

Nope, almost correct but not quite.

usapa is where it was two years ago. But, is parked and has us under injunction.

The West is where it was two years ago, but, we now have the company admitting in federal court that it thinks it has to use the Nic, that the TA is a part of the CBA and under the RLA usapa would be in violation of their DFR if they do not use the Nic.

Other than that, you are once again showing your typical pragmatic understanding of the situation.

 

[jetjok1]

First you have to get it into a contract......then the test would be did the union represent its class and craft. A wide range of reasonableness is the measure, and scabbing another pilots job falls far outside that range.

go ahead and get up and do what you do everyday. But don't try to make working on the shittiest contract in the industry at the lowest wage so that you can prove to the world you are a reneging scumbag sound so romantic.

You name call (unprofessional trait), you cuss ( unprofessional trait) and your whole argument is we stay on LOA 93 ( old news trait). Listen, I understand your frustration. Back when your comments were reasonable, thought provoking and respected (by me.....no longer the case though), I understood and empathized with the West position. Read my lips.....DOH IS NOT MY POSITION!! There needs to be some reasonable slotting type of seniority list......which is not the NIC. That list was unreasonable. End of story.

 

[nic4us]

Yawn...go ahead try to force DOH and then you get your DFR.

But, bless your hearts, you all think you won something today.

Parker is the one laughing his ass off...

I don't think Parker is laughing on this one.

He can go to the 9th and cause further delay, but I think this thing is screwing with the merger talks.

 

[Phoenix]

True, true, but I'm willing to put about as much money on res jud as you are on bump and flush!

We're just where we were 2 years ago. At least the attorneys are richer.

Same place as two years ago? Yes and no. Evidently the 9th has been reaffirmed. The company's delay tactics have paid out handsomely.

But If a merger opportunity comes out of the NDA talks then the company will not be interested in any more delays, I suspect. If no merger they would be business putz if they didn't keep delaying.

At any rate, aside from the hold out groups that are adamant about playing chicken with their eyes closed, against a freight train... well lets just say that I bet a majority of folks are starting to get tired of the resistance to move forward and see that the courts are NOT the impediment here anymore. Its settled. Quit with the lawyers already and move forward, especially if APA and USAPA have to put a list together anytime in the next few months.

 

[nic4us]

Well i know at least 3, spoke to them tonight and they were optimistic like i am that we can finally come up with something non NIC that can get passed so we all get a raise.

Really? Care to share names? I would hate to think it was the 3 West reps.

guess I will call them tomorrow, then I think I will call Ferguson and Koontz.

Next time you talk to the 3, be sure to tell them the raise ain't coming and to keep their budget for a while.

 

[nic4us]

Same place as two years ago? Yes and no. Evidently the 9th has been reaffirmed. The company's delay tactics have paid out handsomely.

But If a merger opportunity comes out of the NDA talks then the company will not be interested in any more delays, I suspect. If no merger they would be business putz if they didn't keep delaying.

At any rate, aside from the hold out groups that are adamant about playing chicken with their eyes closed, against a freight train... well lets just say that I bet a majority of folks are starting to get tired of the resistance to move forward and see that the courts are NOT the impediment here anymore. Its settled. Quit with the lawyers already and move forward, especially if APA and USAPA have to put a list together anytime in the next few months.

man are you obtuse. and after all those great anagrams I thought you actually had a brain.


First, we already have a CBA with a seniority list. Does usapa want to renegotiate that seniority list? Yes. Have they been able to...no.

Nothing is settled. Still have the Nic as the only system seniority list at LCC, just in case that merger does happen.

You might want to read up on McCaskill/Bond and how Allegehny/Mohawk works. I hear the idea is they take the two company's seniority lists and combine them in a "fair and equitable" manner.

 

[Phoenix]

Really? Care to share names? I would hate to think it was the 3 West reps.

guess I will call them tomorrow, then I think I will call Ferguson and Koontz.

Next time you talk to the 3, be sure to tell them the raise ain't coming and to keep their budget for a while.

Can't recall their names but one of them was pulling cactus thorns out of his chaps, one had a goat, and the other one was wearing a yellow raincoat.