August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

Let's review history-

http://youtu.be/JUIDPeHsnMg

 

[Portly Dorman]

Here's your hero!!

http://youtu.be/196szSLP3L4

 

[Portly Dorman]

And they keep getting re-elected-

 

[snapthis]

And they keep getting re-elected-

^^^^^
Goober

Did AFO Bradford actually show up at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in uniform for that pic? Thanks for the reminder of how he and his pals brought the USAPA circus and ringmaster Seham to our house as well.

They never cease to amaze.

 

[Pi brat]

In your opinion the court is going to ignore the last eight years? That even if usapa is found liable of DFR to the west she will give them a pass like it never happened?

Find usapa guilty but allow usapa the redo that they have been demanding for the last 6 years?

That the court will ignore final and binding arbitration letting an angry party avoid arbitration giviing anyone a legal out?

The quickest way to settle this is for the court to issue an injunction that forces usapa to use the arbitrated list that usapa knew they inherited.

Uh, I think when Judge Wake was forced to dismiss he used your words "as if it never happened."

The last 6 years are "strong evidence" of the quagmire we were in and the wisdom of the 9t that we may no complete the TA as required.

We ALL decided to do something different, you guys are trying to trick the process, just as you have accused the east of.

Judge Silver may very well do what you think. But she will have to ignore a lot to do it.

 

[cleardirect]

Uh, I think when Judge Wake was forced to dismiss he used your words "as if it never happened."

The last 6 years are "strong evidence" of the quagmire we were in and the wisdom of the 9t that we may no complete the TA as required.

We ALL decided to do something different, you guys are trying to trick the process, just as you have accused the east of.

Judge Silver may very well do what you think. But she will have to ignore a lot to do it.

Trick the system? Are you F&^*ing serious?

The west is only trying to implement what we all agreed to.

It was you easties that are trying to trick the system. Changing union thinking by changing the name will avoid your obligations. Demanding what you could not get by negotiating or arbitrating. Hoping that majority rules can over ride federal law.

It never fails to amaze me at the level of justification and self lying you can can come up with.

Judge Wake was forced to dismiss the CASE as if it never happened. Not as you want it to mean that the DFR never happened or that the failure to represent fairly never happened or that the last eight years of biased treated never happened.

The court is not going to allow the east to grab all of the upgrades, get 1700 furloughs back to work and new hires while the west gets nothing. That is not going to be ignored like it never happened and we start with the facts today.

 

[Pi brat]

Trick the system? Are you F&^*ing serious?

The west is only trying to implement what we all agreed to.

It was you easties that are trying to trick the system. Changing union thinking by changing the name will avoid your obligations. Demanding what you could not get by negotiating or arbitrating. Hoping that majority rules can over ride federal law.

It never fails to amaze me at the level of justification and self lying you can can come up with.

Judge Wake was forced to dismiss the CASE as if it never happened. Not as you want it to mean that the DFR never happened or that the failure to represent fairly never happened or that the last eight years of biased treated never happened.

The court is not going to allow the east to grab all of the upgrades, get 1700 furloughs back to work and new hires while the west gets nothing. That is not going to be ignored like it never happened and we start with the facts today.

I am completely %$#&$ serious. Now maybe you consider turnabout as fair play, but you guys came up with your scheme to pass the MOU then turn around and claim that it is illegal and if you win round one, keep USAPA from appealing.

You talk about honoring your agreements, but you didnt want to follow the TA or court rulings.

I'm just pointing out that you are doing what the USAPA founders did-using any means possible to get what YOU think is fair.

Do you ever consider that the Nic-or-nothing strategy may fail? It may. You were warned years ago about the pitfalls of your strategy considering the TA, but you didnt listen. They came true, now you're mad. You really should prepare yourself for any outcome.

 

[cleardirect]

I am completely %$#&$ serious. Now maybe you consider turnabout as fair play, but you guys came up with your scheme to pass the MOU then turn around and claim that it is illegal and if you win round one, keep USAPA from appealing.

You talk about honoring your agreements, but you didnt want to follow the TA or court rulings.

I'm just pointing out that you are doing what the USAPA founders did-using any means possible to get what YOU think is fair.

Do you ever consider that the Nic-or-nothing strategy may fail. It may. You wereto warned years ago aboutabout the pitfalls of yourthe strategy considering the TA, but youyou didnt listen. They came true, now you're mad. You really should prepare yourself for any outcome.

The west was prepared for any outcome of the arbitration. Can you say the same?

The west is prepared for any outcome from the court. Can you say the same?

You and the rest of the easties have got it wrong again. The west is not trying to claim the MOU is illegal. We are claiming what usapa did was illegal. Easy fix. The court issues an injunction requiring usapa to use the arbitrated list for the integration between US Airways pilots and American pilots. The MOU stays exactly the same. M/B process for intgration.

 

[prechilill]

Words just fail me after reading TR's rant. Must be a community college thing... the revisionist history is amazing.

We are where we are because of the greed of children like TR- the temper tantrum thrown back in 2007. Nothing else. It's not Parker, it's not the west, it's not Nicolau- it's because of cry babies like TR that got us to where we are.

The ONLY obstacle which stood in the way of implementing Nicolau was the fact the JCBA was not completed. Period. Nothing else. Self hostage taking is exactly what it means- and the east handed Parker a billion in savings. Your choice- you had the numbers and could control whether we got a JCBA or not.

Well, now we have a template for a JCBA and the company, APA and AOL all believe we have a contract. TR and his cry babies are no longer in control, the Nic is on the horizon (the case is now ripe, even by the high standards of ripeness set by the "wisdom of the 9th" as TR called the appeals court above). Silver now has everything she needs to box in FUKU.
Two moves away from checkmate. Life is good... for the west pilots and American pilots.

 

[prechilill]

I am completely %$#&$ serious. Now maybe you consider turnabout as fair play, but you guys came up with your scheme to pass the MOU then turn around and claim that it is illegal and if you win round one, keep USAPA from appealing.

You talk about honoring your agreements, but you didnt want to follow the TA or court rulings.

I'm just pointing out that you are doing what the USAPA founders did-using any means possible to get what YOU think is fair.

Do you ever consider that the Nic-or-nothing strategy may fail? It may. You were warned years ago about the pitfalls of your strategy considering the TA, but you didnt listen. They came true, now you're mad. You really should prepare yourself for any outcome.

Nic or nothing is not a strategy, it is reality. There is no alternative to it and that is why we are in court with a ripe DFR claim against FUKU. All you managed to do these past 7 years is work for Republic wages, Parker thanks you for your emotional stupidity. Really, you guys walked away from a billion dollars voluntarily. Now we are two moves away from what was inevitable to begin with- East/ West joint list using the arbitration we both agreed to. There is not going to be a second bite at the apple, no second chance. It amazes me you actually believed you could get away from it. But again, your lack of understanding, growing up in a protected environment, all that is coming home to roost. You really have no clue what life is like and many of us seasoned aviators who earned our jobs can see what you are unable to see... and your inability to understand reality is evident from your own posts. Your bubble is bursting, PI. It will be satisfying to me and quite a few others to watch your meltdown.

 

[Piedmont1984]

If Silver uses the actual language in the MOU, then I believe she has a good case for a 3 way. If she doesn't infer or extrapolate what the document may say or imply, then according to its own language, we return to the status quo antebellum. The clock gets reset to 2005. All previous agreements and arrangements dissappear at the POR. The seniority lists currently in effect at LCC are not tampered with. Both east and west represent their own interests in the M/B process moving forward. Just like two separate MECs - only different.

If her intent is to order an injunction requiring the Nic, then it's the Nic, no need for separate party status. She is inching her way towards a 3 way.

The result is the west gets to argue the Nic, USAPA gets to argue DOH (presumably) and the uncivil war is brought to an end.

Would the NMB challenge this if they see it as a way to end the dispute? Would USAPA consider a 3 way an acceptable risk (the risk being that the Nic would prevail in the SLI with AA - unlikely)? Would the west go counter to what the judge and the company have been hinting at? They get their seat and say at the table.

A 3 way recognizes that the previous process was unfinished and unresolved. Time for both parties to move on.

 

[Portly Dorman]

By the east's attorney shamanski the MOU was seniority neutral.

Was that for just the Nic?

Guess I'm just confused, neutral is neutral. No Nic but yes to DOH?? Did AOL, Shamanski, Hummel, and the communications committee all lie to the west?

 

[Monkee]

I am completely %$#&$ serious. Now maybe you consider turnabout as fair play, but you guys came up with your scheme to pass the MOU then turn around and claim that it is illegal and if you win round one, keep USAPA from appealing.

You talk about honoring your agreements, but you didnt want to follow the TA or court rulings.

I'm just pointing out that you are doing what the USAPA founders did-using any means possible to get what YOU think is fair.

Do you ever consider that the Nic-or-nothing strategy may fail? It may. You were warned years ago about the pitfalls of your strategy considering the TA, but you didnt listen. They came true, now you're mad. You really should prepare yourself for any outcome.

Wow, such new revisionist thinking. It all comes back to the original arbitration that you agreed to, then attempted to get out of by making USAPA.

East has done everything to try not to live up to their responsibilities, the end game is finally coming, not like you weren't warned excessively.

 

[Piedmont1984]

By the east's attorney shamanski the MOU was seniority neutral.

Was that for just the Nic?

Guess I'm just confused, neutral is neutral. No Nic but yes to DOH?? Did AOL, Shamanski, Hummel, and the communications committee all lie to the west?

Clean slate means exactly that. It's a box of chocolates. Yes to the Nic if you can swing it and same goes for DOH.

 

[Res Judicata]

If Silver uses the actual language in the MOU, then I believe she has a good case for a 3 way. If she doesn't infer or extrapolate what the document may say or imply, then according to its own language, we return to the status quo antebellum. The clock gets reset to 2005. All previous agreements and arrangements dissappear at the POR. The seniority lists currently in effect at LCC are not tampered with. Both east and west represent their own interests in the M/B process moving forward. Just like two separate MECs - only different.

If her intent is to order an injunction requiring the Nic, then it's the Nic, no need for separate party status. She is inching her way towards a 3 way.

The result is the west gets to argue the Nic, USAPA gets to argue DOH (presumably) and the uncivil war is brought to an end.

Would the NMB challenge this if they see it as a way to end the dispute? Would USAPA consider a 3 way an acceptable risk (the risk being that the Nic would prevail in the SLI with AA - unlikely)? Would the west go counter to what the judge and the company have been hinting at? They get their seat and say at the table.

A 3 way recognizes that the previous process was unfinished and unresolved. Time for both parties to move on.

There is no mention of East/West in the MOU. NONE. Why? Because Nic already settled that issue.