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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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You are correct, I understand a certain trait of having grown up in a household of two executives, one who was a CEO. I made mistakes, no DUI's. I still had to answer to both a parent and people who sat on BOD's.

They both hated unions. Why? Because they had to battle unions to fire idiots. Thanks for making my parents correct by birthing USAPA.

I have to give you USAPA types credit. My parents were correct.

Thank you for the affirmation. Union power can be abused. Think about that the next time you crucify a CEO.

Union thugs.

Thugs they are, those unionists. It is a good thing your CEO only spent one day in jail so he could return and take care of his flock. He has failed to set a decent example, he is a jailbird.
Now his streak of frat house activity has jeopardized countless employees.
His unethical business practices have had the spotlight of the DOJ shone on them, and they are disgusting to the traveling public. Perhaps he spoke the truth on making needed money, but he stupidly handled communicating them internally.
Horton was too smart. He should be chosen to end the frat house antics of the America West CEO.
 
Thugs they are, those unionists. It is a good thing your CEO only spent one day in jail so he could return and take care of his flock. He has failed to set a decent example, he is a jailbird.
Now his streak of frat house activity has jeopardized countless employees.
His unethical business practices have had the spotlight of the DOJ shone on them, and they are disgusting to the traveling public. Perhaps he spoke the truth on making needed money, but he stupidly handled communicating them internally.
Horton was too smart. He should be chosen to end the frat house antics of the America West CEO.

You make some valid points.
 
Thugs they are, those unionists. It is a good thing your CEO only spent one day in jail so he could return and take care of his flock. He has failed to set a decent example, he is a jailbird.
Now his streak of frat house activity has jeopardized countless employees.
His unethical business practices have had the spotlight of the DOJ shone on them, and they are disgusting to the traveling public. Perhaps he spoke the truth on making needed money, but he stupidly handled communicating them internally.
Horton was too smart. He should be chosen to end the frat house antics of the America West CEO.

Not the way I would have worded it, but like Snap said, "You make some valid points."

Bean
 
Not the way I would have worded it, but like Snap said, "You make some valid points."

Bean

I'll give him credit, he's correct. I too have been embarrassed by DP and think he's been given a pass.

Not so for the rest of us.

It's a zero tolerance.
 
Wonder what emails DUI has sent to AOL and Marty or did they just go to Elise? You can bet the DOJ is sitting on a mountain of Doug's emails and data and this is just the tip of the iceberg! But did we mention he is on a very tight timeline?
 
I need some verification guys help me out! A little birdie told me today that KOONTZ wants DAVE CIAB, GARY HUMMEL, BRADFORD(VIDEO TAPED) depositions taken for the ARMY OF LEADSUSUNHIREABLES, now is it true? what CLEARY said HUMMEL and these guys cut a deal then pulled it when AMERICAN came into play?or am I misinformed? Now I know for a fact there being deposed! MM!

If they are being deposed, it is because of the litigation before Judge Silver. Good luck on finding any "cut deals." I honestly think even reasonable folks could have been lead into such deals, happens all the time. But not here. The single unifying thread that links even Hummel, Cleary, even the West, and all their individual supporters is a general distrust of management. And look at the LA Times reporting, the distain Parker and the gang holds for not only its employees, but the travelling public. Most of us already knew, now the world knows. He will probably survive all this, but there will be a price to pay..hopefully East and West can extract it. RR
 
The single unifying thread that links even Hummel, Cleary, even the West, and all their individual supporters is a general distrust of management. And look at the LA Times reporting, the distain Parker and the gang holds for not only its employees, but the travelling public. Most of us already knew, now the world knows. He will probably survive all this, but there will be a price to pay..hopefully East and West can extract it. RR

RR, you have given me some hope. Yes, the is one unifying thread and it points to our mutual distrust of Parker. He's smart enough to take advantage our dysfunction while getting a pass in pure Chappaquiddick form.

He plays rope-a-dope with labor. That's not a strategy I'd use with the DOJ. He'd better come out swinging if he wants this deal to go through.
 
Here is an excerpt from APA today: "•    We will find out in the next few days when the trial will be scheduled. The trial may occur anytime between the end of September and early December.
•    The DOJ did not file suit to block the mergers of Delta–Northwest and United–Continental. For the DOJ to do so for the proposed American Airlines–US Airways merger would seem to be applying a different standard.
•    If a plan of reorganization has not been finalized by Dec. 13, American Airlines and US Airways must jointly agree to extend their merger agreement.
•    If the DOJ prevails in an effort to block the merger, American Airlines will need to create a new plan of reorganization and submit it to the UCC and others for approval."
I have to believe, with faith in our legal system, that Judge Silver did NOT schedule her trial for 24 Sep based on a supposed POR. She did it simply based on scheduling protocol. So the Honorable Judge will also NOT be re scheduling the trial to take advantage of perceived ripeness. So we hit 24 Sep with no POR, and maybe no chance of a POR much less a merger. And the trial simply hinges on the MOU. I can assure you all the 98% vote by the West Class (if it even exists after the first hour of trial) will seal the decision. Ripe and Dismissed. RR
 
Here is an excerpt from APA today: "•    We will find out in the next few days when the trial will be scheduled. The trial may occur anytime between the end of September and early December.
•    The DOJ did not file suit to block the mergers of Delta–Northwest and United–Continental. For the DOJ to do so for the proposed American Airlines–US Airways merger would seem to be applying a different standard.
•    If a plan of reorganization has not been finalized by Dec. 13, American Airlines and US Airways must jointly agree to extend their merger agreement.
•    If the DOJ prevails in an effort to block the merger, American Airlines will need to create a new plan of reorganization and submit it to the UCC and others for approval."
I have to believe, with faith in our legal system, that Judge Silver did NOT schedule her trial for 24 Sep based on a supposed POR. She did it simply based on scheduling protocol. So the Honorable Judge will also NOT be re scheduling the trial to take advantage of perceived ripeness. So we hit 24 Sep with no POR, and maybe no chance of a POR much less a merger. And the trial simply hinges on the MOU. I can assure you all the 98% vote by the West Class (if it even exists after the first hour of trial) will seal the decision. Ripe and Dismissed. RR

All that said, translates to another delay without resolution.
 
I just love to return to gloat! Loa 93 still in effect....for years. STILL NOT RIPE! AOL leadership in disarray! I'll go out on a limb and venture a guess that all recalls only go East. DE, Chip and the West pilots....still can't fix stupid.
 
Which major hub is in Tennessee?

I think we are paying for DL in MEM on that one.

If the DOJ had said no to DL on the first mega merger, they might have been right. But what they did is allow DL and UA to develop complete world wide networks that the other carriers will be able to pick around the edges, but not compete with totally. Two's company, three's a crowd and in competition that's a good thing! That's what we would have had with the new American, not now.
 
By David Ingram
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - AMR Corp's American Airlines (AAMRQ.PK) and US Airways Group Inc (LCC) could be in for a long and bruising courtroom battle against seasoned lawyers if they choose to keep fighting the U.S. Justice Department's objection to their merger.
Several experts in antitrust law said in interviews that the aggressive stance taken by the Justice Department in the suit it filed in U.S. District Court in Washington signals a sincere intention to block the deal, not just a mere negotiating ploy to get concessions before possible future approval.
If the Justice Department persuades a judge to agree, it will have scuttled an $11 billion deal intended to create the world's largest airline. The government argued that the merger would reduce competition for commercial air travel in local markets throughout the United States and cause passengers to pay higher airfares and receive less service.
The department's Antitrust Division has been picking and winning some big fights in recent years. In July, it won a trial over e-book price-fixing against Apple Inc. In 2011, it successfully blocked a proposed $39 billion merger between AT&T and T-Mobile USA.
One sign that government lawyers are dead set on blocking the deal can be found in an appendix to its lawsuit, said Mark Ostrau, an antitrust lawyer in Mountain View, California.
The appendix lists 1,043 airline routes between cities where, according to the Justice Department, the combined company would have a presumptively illegal monopoly or near monopoly.
The routes between two cities - for example, Charlotte and Dallas - are known in the industry as "city pairs." There may be too many troublesome pairs for AMR and US Airways to resolve in a settlement, and that is something government lawyers must have known when they put the list in their suit, Ostrau said.
"If you wanted something to resolve, you would not have listed more than 1,000 problematic city pairs," he said.
Jonathan Lewis, an antitrust lawyer in Washington, called the Justice Department's suit "very powerful" because it quotes company documents and executives anticipating higher prices through consolidation.
"If there were going to be a settlement, it probably would have happened already," Lewis said, adding that the outcome was still difficult to predict.
AMR and US Airways said they would launch a "vigorous and strong defense" and called the Justice Department "wrong in its assessment of our merger."
"Blocking this pro-competitive merger will deny customers access to a broader airline network that gives them more choices," the companies said in a joint statement.
'FULL-STOP INJUNCTION' SOUGHT
Assistant Attorney General Bill Baer, the head of the Justice Department's Antitrust Division, on Tuesday outlined broad objections to the deal based on competition in the industry generally.
"We learned during our investigation about what happened to competition from prior acquisitions, and as we look at the market today, it's not functioning as competitively as it ought to be," Baer told reporters on a conference call.
Baer said he wanted nothing short of a "full-stop injunction" - meaning a court order preventing the merger - even if it means his staff spending months in court.
"We don't file lawsuits unless we're prepared vigorously to defend them, and that's what we're doing right now," he said.
The Justice Department gives parties to a merger several opportunities to respond to likely government objections, allowing them to submit documents and sit down with top department lawyers. The department followed that process in this case, Baer said.
"I don't think it was a surprise to the parties," Baer said of the lawsuit.
U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly was assigned to oversee the case. In 2001, she was assigned to oversee the penalty phase of the landmark U.S. antitrust case against Microsoft Corp.
An appointee of Democratic President Barack Obama, Baer joined the Antitrust Division in January from the Washington law firm Arnold & Porter. Private antitrust lawyers describe him as a self-assured leader in the field who does not shy from challenging cases.
Under Baer and his predecessors, the division has coined a term - "litigation-ready" - to represent a new willingness to go to court, and it has built up its courtroom experience with the hiring of its first director of litigation, Mark Ryan.
Although there is no hearing date set for the airline case, let alone a Justice Department trial team named, the government's courtroom lawyers are likely to include people like Ryan, who successfully argued the Apple trial last month.
The efforts are designed to help the Antitrust Division avoid any repeat of a major loss in 2004, when it tried but failed to block Oracle Corp's takeover of PeopleSoft.
AMR and US Airways will need to think hard if they are committed to following through on pledges to fight, said Evan Stewart, an antitrust lawyer in New York.
"Time is not the friend of these merging companies. Litigation as a playing-out-the-clock process is something that helps the government," he said.
(Editing by Will Dunham)
 
Sad news for all employees of LCC and American... It appears from what is being reported that the DOJ (Eric Holder) have dug in their heels and are seriously going to do whatever it takes to stop this merger. Too bad Parker and LCC management had to run their mouths so much, as it appears this information is where the DOJ is getting their ammo. Status quo for the next decade!
 
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