August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nic4us]

Sorry BUB you are absolutely wrong, all those upgrades and Capt positions would be taken by WEST pilots advantaged by your ALPA gift.The EAST pilots attrition would have only left them stagnate with no wage advantage, Thus most of the benefit goes by a large percentage to the WEST who were hired years after those disadvantaged! Enjoy your vacation, see ya in the 9th!

MM please stick to the whitty quips and your excellent command of the English language.

Because your math skills suck!

You do realize the Nic is slotted with a 2-1 ish advantage east...so the West would not have taken all the upgrades only 1/3rd and that still does not change the fact that the 1500 or so east group 2 captains who already held the seat have lost at least the amount of money Cactusboy posted.

Btw, West also contributes to the overall attrition, so it is more like a 3-1 advantage east.

 

[Pi brat]

MM please stick to the whitty quips and your excellent command of the English language.

Because your math skills suck!

You do realize the Nic is slotted with a 2-1 ish advantage east...so the West would not have taken all the upgrades only 1/3rd and that still does not change the fact that the 1500 or so east group 2 captains who already held the seat have lost at least the amount of money Cactusboy posted.

Btw, West also contributes to the overall attrition, so it is more like a 3-1 advantage east.

I don't think so, show your math and don't rely on AOL propaganda.

You know that "the east delay was ONLY 2 years" thing AOL put in their brochure? That was from Salamant and they didn't mention that the "only 2 years" was only top of a 20 year wait, would have them on reserve for many, many more years and that the "only 2 year delay" came because some west pilots upgrade would advance by 6 years. Windfall at the expense of others.

You take out the top 517, and the furloughed and the rest of the list was basically slotted 1 for 1.25.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Other than 6 years of delay since the Nicolau Award was rendered, what has USAPA produced?

They have stopped the Nicolau Award, but also at a terrible price. I would submit that's not really winning either. And a 5 year WN F/o makes more than we make as topped out A320 Captains.

I concur with your assessment if the merger fails. Certainly senior management will continue to allow the pilot seniority issue to keep their pilot labor costs at Regional scales. The war of attrition will take at least 2 or 3 more years to resolve in the courts.

I suggest that should USAPA lose in Silver's court the membership should have a opportunity to vote on going back the the 9th. Perhaps a majority of the pilots have now had enough and are ready to move on.

More likely though it will be as you said....more of the same.

Rare, indeed, that I would agree with you. But this time I do.

USAPA has not "produced" anything of note. It's spin into administrative and executive monarchy has been disheartening, to say the least.

If Judge Silver does rule in favor of the Addington plaintiffs, I would also like to see a plebiscite on heading to the 9th Circuit. Since the officers are tyrants, and the BPR does not have the cojones to challenge them, I membership vote would be interesting. Personally, I would vote to head to the 9th, but I am just one vote. Given the shenanigans at USAPA HQ over the last few years, I think the west might just prevail in such a vote.

Of course, that is why it will never happen.

 

[Pi brat]

If the AA merger does not go through, the east and west will work under their respective contracts for at least 5 more years. Probably 10...assuming LCC survives that long.

I've come to accept 2-5 more years of this minimum.

 

[nic4us]

Hey let's talk some more about that failed 3% arbitration.

PiBrat says all pilots lost when uscaba once again failed to win a disingenuous BS arbitration.

I say it is just another example of how much of a complete failure uscaba will always be.

Pi says we have become accustomed to the company violating the contract.

I say not really, the 3% is not in any contract, and as a matter of fact all the contracts in effect sans MOU, say LOA 93 until a Nic inclusive JCBA. This is just one more attempt by uscaba to steal from the West in their ongoing failure as a union and in their DFR.

So, suck it up there east pilots, it is LOA93 .

 

[Pi brat]

Funny, I didn't get many replies on what AOL has delivered for the west pilots. Hmm.

The 10 year west F/O on my jumpseat is making about $90 bucks an hour, on reserve. What has this done for him CB53?

 

[Pi brat]

Hey let's talk some more about that failed 3% arbitration.

PiBrat says all pilots lost when uscaba once again failed to win a disingenuous BS arbitration.

I say it is just another example of how much of a complete failure uscaba will always be.

Pi says we have become accustomed to the company violating the contract.

I say not really, the 3% is not in any contract, and as a matter of fact all the contracts in effect sans MOU, say LOA 93 until a Nic inclusive JCBA. This is just one more attempt by uscaba to steal from the West in their ongoing failure as a union and in their DFR.

So, suck it up there east pilots, it is LOA93 .

Have you actually read the grievance and the east contracts?

 

[nycbusdriver]

The US Airways pilots, ESPECIALLY the East pilots, have the most to gain, of any employee group, from this merger being completed. Huge pay raises and contract improvements for the East pilots, and substantial raises for the West pilots as well. Most of the other unions representing AA employees and US employees have come out with very positive statements in support of this merger. The Allied Pilots Association (APA) put out a timely and articulate, well-thought out press release with unwavering support for this merger. Where is the same sort of response from USAPA? They should be all over this, to try to garner support for the merger. Not that USAPA has much credibility anyway, but they could at least try to represent ALL of us in a positive way to help make this merger happen. This is critically important to our careers and our families' well-being!

It's so pitiful, it's almost laughable, that USAPA has published NOTHING of substance on the DOJ's lawsuit.

I just went to the USAPA website and there is NOTHING, even after a week for the attorneys, the king's court and the Lac-of-Communications Committee to put some kind of spin on it.

Even ALPA has been pro-active in opposing the DOJ move with a quickly-timed press release.

I'll bet Leonidas would easily "get 200 cards" (from east pilots.)

 

[nic4us]

I don't think so, show your math and don't rely on AOL propaganda.

You know that "the east delay was ONLY 2 years" thing AOL put in their brochure? That was from Salamant and they didn't mention that the "only 2 years" was only top of a 20 year wait, would have them on reserve for many, many more years and that the "only 2 year delay" came because some west pilots upgrade would advance by 6 years. Windfall at the expense of others.

You take out the top 517, and the furloughed and the rest of the list was basically slotted 1 for 1.25.

Oh, for Pete's sake!

I really did not think I would have to give you a math lesson, but here goes.

We will use your numbers..1-1.25! Which really is not true overall, but is closer to accurate when comparing one class I.e. The ratio mix of narrow body captains.

So at 1-1.25 the east FOs would get 5 out of ever 9 upgrades. Over half, and far from MMs claim that the West would get ALL the upgrades.

Further, that does not change the fact that the pilots who already held those seats have forgone at least the pay increase CactusBoy posted

 

[Freighterguynow]

Merger or none. You're out the door.

No matter how long it takes.

Count on it.

8 - 3 count on that.

 

[snapthis]

Take your high heels and pound sand.

Are you a baseball fan Clax? Did you watch the Red Sox and Yankees play the other night? A-Rod, the cheater got hit by a pitch and the stadium erupted in cheers. Why?

Because nobody likes a cheat.

O'Reily did a segment on cheating last night, starting with A-Rod.
http://foxnewsinside...erican-business

That's the reason I want to see _______ (fill in the blank), lose.

USAPA
Created to cheat West pilots out of their seniority

A-Rod
Doping

Penn St
Look the other way while you have a molester in your ranks.

Ohio St
Undefeated last year and nothing to show for it

Lance Armstrong
Doping

Bernie Madoff
Ponzi scheme

Usapians are cheaters and their actions should not be tolerated. I'll continue pitching inside until Usapians get off our property.

Unlike you, I gotta go to work, Clax

Xoxo

 

[cactusboy53]

And no min fleet, no raise to the E190 and Kirby denied the extra 10%. CB really needs to actually read what Stephen testified to-"possible."

Oh, so you sometimes believe Kirby and you sometimes don't? It's all a matter of court records. Go research it for yourself. Given our JNC ability and the environment, I think it is a very fair likelyhood that those wages could have been had.

You can keep plugging your ears and saying "LA LA LA LA LA LA" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myWaa6xvPZ4), but it doesn't make it untrue. The East pilot division of USAPA is responsible for the complete loss of millions and millions of dollars in our pockets.

We continue to stand firm on legal, moral & ethical high ground. This will finish in the courts or by Mr. Parker's decision to move forward with the only list that is on his desk.

Personal losses of time off, contract improvements & hundreds of thousands of dollars EACH all lost to an epic failure.

 

[cactusboy53]

Funny, I didn't get many replies on what AOL has delivered for the west pilots. Hmm.

The 10 year west F/O on my jumpseat is making about $90 bucks an hour, on reserve. What has this done for him CB53?

Kept you from stealing what does not belong to you, going to bed every night with a clear conscience, and knowing that justice & ethics will prevail. PRICELESS!

SYIC

 

[EastUS1]

We continue to stand firm on legal, moral & ethical high ground.

It's interesting that even your avatar as well, reeks of smarmy-kid nonsense. No matter. I just dropped in to see how the entries for Joke of the Day were shaping up. It'll be tough to top that one. 😉

 

[nic4us]

Have you actually read the grievance and the east contracts?

Yes and No. I have read the east contract, and predicted during the snap back arbitration that uscaba would lose, but said they might get the 3% if the arbitrator decided to split the baby. But, as a stand alone grievance, the 3% was a loser. It is just not what the contract states. Bottom line, LOA93 does not expire or sunset, it has an amendable date like all RLA contracts. To get off of it, you have to negotiate a new CBA. To negotiate a new CBA, you have to Nic.

Uscaba's entire existence based on not using the Nic, so, no Nic, no new CBA...LOA 93 til enough of the pilots losing the $40+k/year retire and we then get a Nic inclusive contract.

Have you read the West's grievance over the training overpayment?