August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

And 100% were about to be...these reneging malcontents can't even gracefully accept the "windfall" Nicolau granted them.

And we would have had the few jobs available before you hit the streets.

 

[nic4us]

And we would have had the few jobs available before you hit the streets.

Then you would have been senior to us at those jobs...but not at LCC and/or the New American!

 

[Pi brat]

Then you would have been senior to us at those jobs...but not at LCC and/or the New American!

Senior to most of you at both, no matter how it goes.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

YES. My collective bargaining agent having failed to come to an agreement with the other party (assuming), would then be forced to enter into mediation (assuming also failed) then goes to final & binding arbitration. It's not "kind-of-final & binding". It's not "final & binding unless I think it's not fair arbitration". It's not "final & binding arbitration, but I'm crossing my fingers behind my back". It's FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION.

Lack of integrity stems from the following:

• Stepping away from the Joint CBA talks because the seniority award is deemed by the larger group to be unfair.
• Forming a new union for the primary purpose of evading said seniority award, AND having succeeded in forming that "union" then persecute for failed RICO, failed ID Theft, etc.
• Using the legal ability of termination as a means to extort dues, for which the DOH paper chase has been in part funded.

Don't worry about me. Lots of notes. Lots of updates from committees with pretty good info.

CB

Thanks Cactus Dave. Question asked and answered. I won't ask you that particular one again, although I will continue to bring up the insanity of a 17 year pilot going behind a new hire.

Obviously, based on my history, I was exactly opposite of you. I told my family no way in hell would that stand, and I would be willing to kick the union off the property, beg, borrow, steal, lie, cheat, and anything else required to stop it.

Here we be!

Best,

Greeter

 

[nic4us]

Senior to most of you at both, no matter how it goes.

Well congratulations captain....you just proved that the Nic is fair and equitable and not by any means a "windfall" or "staple"!

You said you requalified what 2.5 or 3 years ago?

And now you admit that you are senior to most...well I take that to mean at least half, and would also be able to hold that captain seat even with the Nic, being senior "to most".

Your complaint, that you will not rise to be #3 or whatever is irrelevant. There is no stand alone AAA for you to rise to #3 at. Is it fair that the West guy who would have ended up #3 still would at a much larger group at LCC? We will never know because he now faces a SLI with American.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks Cactus Dave. Question asked and answered. I won't ask you that particular one again, although I will continue to bring up the insanity of a 17 year pilot going behind a new hire.

Obviously, based on my history, I was exactly opposite of you. I told my family no way in hell would that stand, and I would be willing to kick the union off the property, beg, borrow, steal, lie, cheat, and anything else required to stop it.

Here we be!

Best,

Greeter

Yeah, and we haven't even gotten to the "beg, borrow, steal, lie, cheat, and anything else required" phases of opposition.

 

[Metroyet]

Yeah, and we haven't even gotten to the "beg, borrow, steal, lie, cheat, and anything else required" phases of opposition.

Let me guess....a "safety campaign"?

 

[Claxon]

Cactusboy53 dave simmons thinks the nic is fair. I wonder why?

Name/ dob/ doh

3370 2032 US JAFFE BYRON L FO A320 x/xx/1959 2/4/1985
3371 1469 awa SIMMONS DAVID P FO A320 x/xx/1958 9/11/2000
3372 2033 US GROTE GARY P CA B737 x/xx/1952 3/24/1985
3373 1470 awa ROBERTS TIMOTHY R FO A320 xx/xx/1959 9/11/2000
3374 2034 US WAGNER WARREN A CA A320 x/xx/1958 3/24/1985

 

[crazystnic]

1. It was a seniority integration not a DOH/LOS integration. If a guy with 17 years from DOH is junior on a seprarate list then he would rightfully be just as junior on the combined list. Actually with the top 517 slots going the vast majority of east pilots in the middle and the top of the lists gain in relative position compared to their original relative position and in comparison to a west pilot in a similar quartile on his own separate list.

2. Perhaps and perhaps not. The future is very hard to predict if your not God existing outside of time. Lots of circumstances could come in and mess with that paradigm, like say liquidation or a further contraction of operations just as the east had been doing for years before 2005.

3. Attrition was never guaranteed. Again liquidation would change that expectation just like the merger changed the west pilots' expectations about their futures. Just like a merger with American will change expectations again. When you get to a certain status you can claim you have attained something. If you never attain that status then wishing and hoping for different circumstances doesn't change status one iota.

The arbitration panel looked at all this and produced a fair and binding award that did what the pilots refused to do without assistance, namely work out the disparities and competing demands from the groups and produce a single and enforceable list that met the conditions of the TA and ALPA merger policy. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

yeah dude, it's very hard to comprehend... time will tell the outcome, but you can't convince. me or many others. What about the captains that lost 7 years with west going ahead of them?

 

[Pi brat]

Well congratulations captain....you just proved that the Nic is fair and equitable and not by any means a "windfall" or "staple"!

You said you requalified what 2.5 or 3 years ago?

And now you admit that you are senior to most...well I take that to mean at least half, and would also be able to hold that captain seat even with the Nic, being senior "to most".

Your complaint, that you will not rise to be #3 or whatever is irrelevant. There is no stand alone AAA for you to rise to #3 at. Is it fair that the West guy who would have ended up #3 still would at a much larger group at LCC? We will never know because he now faces a SLI with American.

Had it not been for my east pilots that were smarter than me, I might be your F/O. Shiver.

 

[Phoenix]

Let me guess....a "safety campaign"?

Didn't both the 9th and Silver teach you about the futility of speculating? We don't even know if those phases will ever be required. Certainly doesn't appear they will.

 

[traderjake]

What was the west's? You think they would have continued their 7 year upgrades, acquired A330s and start a trans-Atlantic division?

Chapter 11, not Chapter 7 like us.

Everything changes in a merger.

Should the USAir pilots been fenced off the 767s forever?

No they should not.

 

[Pi brat]

Chapter 11, not Chapter 7 like us.

Jake, my God man. They weren't SWA or DAL. Damn.

 

[traderjake]

Jake, my God man. They weren't SWA or DAL. Damn.

Who were closer to closing the doors forever?

USAirways or America West?

If USAirways disappeared would every other airline benefited including America West?

Did you know United attempted to merge with America West?

Appearently United thought they weren't totally worthless.

 

[Pi brat]

Who were closer to closing the doors forever?

USAirways or America West?

More importantly, who cares? It didn't happen and what we brought to the merger stands and is the most profitable. What's wrong with you?