August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[CaptChill]

That means either the court or Parker makes a decision. But one thing is for certain, the court can't just ignore the case and hope it goes away. Because Leonidas is not going away but usapa is. That is the only fact that will over take events

Blah... blah... blah... yadda... yadda... yadda... Yeah and once USAPA goes away who you gonna sue? APA... American?

 

[mrbreeze]

Blah... blah... blah... yadda... yadda... yadda... Yeah and once USAPA goes away who you gonna sue? APA... American?

Clear is just like Sheldon on "The Big Bang Theory". He has never been able to see the forest for the trees.

 

[Claxon]

Clear is just like Sheldon on "The Big Bang Theory". He has never been able to see the forest for the trees.

It sure is fun watching the look on Scott Kirby's face when Capt. Gay lurches up and tries to lecture him.

 

[Phoenix]

Is that how you think the justice system works? A party files a complain and the court can just ignore it until it goes away? That injured parties never ever get their day in court and the liable party can delay forever?

A complaint has been filed it has to be dealt with.

I would predict that judge Silver waits until after the POR to rule. Then there is no ripeness issue because the contingent part is no longer a question. The company has said the MOU is a contract.

M/B does not fix anything between east and west. Read the law. You do understand that M/ B can't be used for any merger before December 2007 right? That would be US. All parties except usapa have said the east west seniority has to be finished before the us airways/ American integration can happen.

"(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act."

Unless you think usapa is not subject to the federal laws of this country. Could it be that the company has a couple smart lawyers and can read legal language and knew this? Unlike usapa that has a couple pilots with no training on the NC missed that little detail. That M/B can't be used to integrate east and west.


That means either the court or Parker makes a decision. But one thing is for certain, the court can't just ignore the case and hope it goes away. Because Leonidas is not going away but usapa is. That is the only fact that will over take events

Why are you trying so hard to persuade yourself you can't have what everyone voted for?

You are correct. MB cannot be used (hypothetically speaking, suuure).

Tell us all, can folks contractually agree to develop a process that isn't MB, but is merely "consistent" with MB (IOW, read your MOU!).

 

[cleardirect]

Why are you trying so hard to persuade yourself you can't have what everyone voted for?

You are correct. MB cannot be used (hypothetically speaking, suuure).

Tell us all, can folks contractually agree to develop a process that isn't MB, but is merely consistent with MB?

No.

Why do you think they passed the M/B law?

Tell me was the American/ TWA seniority deal an agreement or an arbitration?

Why was ALPA sued for DFR and lost?

 

[Phoenix]

No.

Why do you think they passed the M/B law?

Tell me was the American/ TWA seniority deal an agreement or an arbitration?

Why was ALPA sued for DFR and lost?

So in your mind MB was developed to ensure a fair and equitable outcome, but you think Silver will disallow an agreement to use a SLI process "consistent with MB" to "begin as soon as possible after the Effective Date"? And why would she do that? Because you are complaining about fairness?

I think you are just a flame baiter. 😉

 

[cleardirect]

So in your mind MB was developed to ensure a fair and equitable outcome, but you think Silver will disallow an agreement to use a SLI process "consistent with MB" to "begin as soon as possible after the Effective Date"? And why would she do that? Because you are complaining about fairness?

I think you are just a flame baiter. 😉

Do you think a federal judge would allow a union being sued for DFR to avoid the very law designed for a fair and equitable process?

Have you read usapa's filing? They told the court that the west does not even get a seat at the table during the M/B process.

Btw usapa has not even said that it is a M/B "like" process. The MOU does not say M/B "like". The contract says THE M/B law.


(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.


Read the law again.

Figure it out. No flame bait just the facts.

 

[Phoenix]

Do you think a federal judge would allow a union being sued for DFR to avoid the very law designed for a fair and equitable process?

Have you read usapa's filing? They told the court that the west does not even get a seat at the table during the M/B process.

Btw usapa has not even said that it is a M/B "like" process. The MOU does not say M/B "like". The contract says THE M/B law.


(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.


Read the law again.

Figure it out. No flame bait just the facts.

No flame bait... 😉

Read the MOU again ... "10. a. A seniority integration process consistent with McCaskill-Bond shall begin as soon as possible after the Effective Date."

Don't worry yourself about anyone using MB. No one agreed to use MB, per se, that would be illegal! 😉 😉

 

[mrbreeze]

Do you think a federal judge would allow a union being sued for DFR to avoid the very law designed for a fair and equitable process?

Have you read usapa's filing? They told the court that the west does not even get a seat at the table during the M/B process.

Btw usapa has not even said that it is a M/B "like" process. The MOU does not say M/B "like". The contract says THE M/B law.


(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.


Read the law again.

Figure it out. No flame bait just the facts.

What you are intentionally overlooking, Clear, is that the NIC was never a part of any SLI, since the TA was never executed. It is dead. Your claim that the MOU is a new contract that activates the NIC is BS. The NIC is not mentioned in the MOU and the MOU states that it is SLI neutral. C'mon, you're smarter than that.

 

[Phoenix]

What you are intentionally overlooking, Clear, is that the NIC was never a part of any SLI, since the TA was never executed. It is dead. Your claim that the MOU is a new contract that activates the NIC is BS. The NIC is not mentioned in the MOU and the MOU states that it is SLI neutral. C'mon, you're smarter than that.

He is, but he has invested platinum level donations in a couple of 2004 and 2005 hires that are "leading".

 

[Claxon]

What you are intentionally overlooking, Clear, is that the NIC was never a part of any SLI, since the TA was never executed. It is dead. Your claim that the MOU is a new contract that activates the NIC is BS. The NIC is not mentioned in the MOU and the MOU states that it is SLI neutral. C'mon, you're smarter than that.

This is the tactic Captain Gay uses in the crew meetings with management. He lurches up in his creepy style and attempts to lecture your president. You are now being told your MOU is a JCBA. Deal with him like Scott Kirby. "NO"

 

[nic4us]

What you are intentionally overlooking, Clear, is that the NIC was never a part of any SLI, since the TA was never executed. It is dead. Your claim that the MOU is a new contract that activates the NIC is BS. The NIC is not mentioned in the MOU and the MOU states that it is SLI neutral. C'mon, you're smarter than that.

Not true at all breeze.

What you are intentionally overlooking is that the TA has been executed, and still in force to this day.

Do we have one operating certificate? Did we establish single carrier status? How are furloughs recalled...etc...etc...

The fact is the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots in compliance with the already executed SLI section of the TA. Done deal. There is no ratification requirement of the Nic, as a matter of fact the Nic is the only option per the TA for any JCBA.

Now the MOU is a whole other animal, and seniority neutral is a misnomer. The MOU specifically says how the LCC pilots will be integrated with the AMR pilots, it is only "neutral" in the sense that it does not say how the already integrated LCC pilots will be integrated....oh, gee, I wonder why?

Further,

 

[mrbreeze]

Not true at all breeze.

What you are intentionally overlooking is that the TA has been executed, and still in force to this day.

Do we have one operating certificate? Did we establish single carrier status? How are furloughs recalled...etc...etc...

The fact is the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots in compliance with the already executed SLI section of the TA. Done deal. There is no ratification requirement of the Nic, as a matter of fact the Nic is the only option per the TA for any JCBA.

Now the MOU is a whole other animal, and seniority neutral is a misnomer. The MOU specifically says how the LCC pilots will be integrated with the AMR pilots, it is only "neutral" in the sense that it does not say how the already integrated LCC pilots will be integrated....oh, gee, I wonder why?

Further,

Sorry, nic......but that's just wishful thinking. Ya know, just clicking those ruby slippers. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[nic4us]

This is the tactic Captain Gay uses in the crew meetings with management. He lurches up in his creepy style and attempts to lecture your president. You are now being told your MOU is a JCBA. Deal with him like Scott Kirby. "NO"

Speaking of lurching and creepy.....

What is it with your obsession over Captain Gay?

 

[nic4us]

Sorry, nic......but that's just wishful thinking. Ya know, just clicking those ruby slippers. Ain't gonna happen.

Read the TA...it is a contract....it is in effect and controlling our operations. the company and/or the APA can collude with the scab union at their peril.


Hmmmmm...let see just exactly how many jury verdicts does uscaba have in the bag? I mean with all those lawsuits uscaba filed...oh, wait, every single one of them was thrown out of court.

BTW...does anybody know if the MDA pilots who lost their grievance have had to pay back the company yet....I mean after all it only took like three years for the West to be paid for the east stealing or block hours and our jobs and getting us furloughed out of seniority back in 2008 after we had to immediately repay the distance learning fiasco because the scab union intentionally dropped our grievance.


Hmmmmm.....man if I were the company I would not like the sound of that going in front of a jury!