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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Other ways of attempting to get the Nicolau Award Seniority list implemented rely on many factors outside the control of individual pilots. The reason to send in your seniority protest letter immediately is quite simple: YOU CONTROL AND CAN FAST-TRACK THE NICOLAU, NOW!
Individual pilots grieving a single contractual issue have a direct, controllable and more effective means of enforcing their seniority rights, via their Collective Bargaining Agreement. Each process (contractual grievance and federal court litigation) is separate and neither hinders nor affects the outcome of the other.
You constantly train to use all resources at your disposal to assure a safe, secure flight outcome. Why on earth would you not use every tool available -- especially your contract -- to finally attain the seniority list that is rightfully yours?

What about other solutions?

Over the past six years, a group of West pilots have pursued the goal of implementing the Nicolau Award through expensive and protracted litigation in the federal court system. Their determination remains unwavering, however the courts have been reluctant and extremely slow to render a decision. Their continuing efforts should be applauded and supported, both emotionally and fifinancially, to keep up their work.

While this litigation group's work is important, it is equally important to note that USAirways pilots have only one bargaining agent, and the litigation group is not (and never will be) such a recognized agent. Further, this group risks muddying their appropriate Nicolau Award-related message, if they persist in attempting to either "represent" or promote bringing additional lists to the seniority list integration process.
This sort of marginalization creates the very real possibility of emboldening other litigious factions to "represent" and promote their own additional separate lists of pilots. Were that the case, the impending seniority integration with American could easily become a 3, 4 or 5 way side show, when it should be solely between USAPA (Nicolau) and APA (American's System Seniority List).
And during the 3-4-5 way side-show, which could slow down list integration and cross-fleeting, there is the real risk of continuing separate operations, much like USAirways and the West pilots have seen from 2007-2013. Don't contribute to the possibility of that happening again!

Remember, you can hedge any eventual litigation outcome by filing your own protest now.

It does not matter who crosses the finish line first, only that they finish and have the Nicolau Seniority List in hand!
You control the fast track. File your protest letter now.

FAST TRACK THE NICOLAU! SEND IN YOUR SENIORITY PROTEST LETTER NOW!
 
So, it's been a month or so... I see.

Why are you trying to obfuscate a grievance that may or may not have been filed?

How can you have "little knowledge" of something that doesn't exist?

Why do you guys always coyly ask the East to fill you in on the details?

I see, you aren't sure if it is being appealed and you think it might be in limbo...

And now you are happy to be sending more money via monthly mortgage payments... Seems to me you shouldn't be asking East pilots for the details on your mystery grievance.. Ask the people who are spending your donations!

Or have you asked them.. And now you are just repeating the coy questions they are hiding behind? :lol:

You make my point.

As for the grievance, the east biased posters 'claimed' to have inside knowledge. I know there was nothing published for the west pilots either confirming or denying the filing yet it keeps coming up on this board.

As for my payments, not a worry to me. I needed to give up Starbucks and other assorted 'road food'. A fair trade to me.

Again, it seems that Slamdanceski is on a fishing expedition, after all you have the gold standard on your side and west seniority is nothing more than a crew meal to you...

PS I wasn't being coy. More of a put up or shut up.

MoreCowbell.jpg
 
And we can trust TUFKAU* because why???

*the union formerly known as #s$p@, I don't want Cleary suing me for using 'his' name. :lol: B) 🙄


Other ways of attempting to get the Nicolau Award Seniority list implemented rely on many factors outside the control of individual pilots. The reason to send in your seniority protest letter immediately is quite simple: YOU CONTROL AND CAN FAST-TRACK THE NICOLAU, NOW!
Individual pilots grieving a single contractual issue have a direct, controllable and more effective means of enforcing their seniority rights, via their Collective Bargaining Agreement. Each process (contractual grievance and federal court litigation) is separate and neither hinders nor affects the outcome of the other.
You constantly train to use all resources at your disposal to assure a safe, secure flight outcome. Why on earth would you not use every tool available -- especially your contract -- to finally attain the seniority list that is rightfully yours?

What about other solutions?

Over the past six years, a group of West pilots have pursued the goal of implementing the Nicolau Award through expensive and protracted litigation in the federal court system. Their determination remains unwavering, however the courts have been reluctant and extremely slow to render a decision. Their continuing efforts should be applauded and supported, both emotionally and fifinancially, to keep up their work.

While this litigation group's work is important, it is equally important to note that USAirways pilots have only one bargaining agent, and the litigation group is not (and never will be) such a recognized agent. Further, this group risks muddying their appropriate Nicolau Award-related message, if they persist in attempting to either "represent" or promote bringing additional lists to the seniority list integration process.
This sort of marginalization creates the very real possibility of emboldening other litigious factions to "represent" and promote their own additional separate lists of pilots. Were that the case, the impending seniority integration with American could easily become a 3, 4 or 5 way side show, when it should be solely between USAPA (Nicolau) and APA (American's System Seniority List).
And during the 3-4-5 way side-show, which could slow down list integration and cross-fleeting, there is the real risk of continuing separate operations, much like USAirways and the West pilots have seen from 2007-2013. Don't contribute to the possibility of that happening again!

Remember, you can hedge any eventual litigation outcome by filing your own protest now.

It does not matter who crosses the finish line first, only that they finish and have the Nicolau Seniority List in hand!
You control the fast track. File your protest letter now.

FAST TRACK THE NICOLAU! SEND IN YOUR SENIORITY PROTEST LETTER NOW!
 
[font="Arial""]There has been a subtle shift here from the West Class. For years we have been told the NIC would crammed down on us in court. Now the focus seems to be on us not getting DOH, and how little moneys we make. The idea the NIC will ever actually be implemented on this property is long remote, rather now impossible. That mindset has finally migrated West. (cue a junior West Class pilot telling us the Nic is the list) RR[/font]

 
There are big problems out West. There is now a solid divide on sticking with NIC or nothing. Seems a lot of West Class folks are tired of "nothing." Being paid only slightly more than the East, trapped in PHX, no wide body upgrades, and a general sense that there simply will be no improvement on anything for years has the rank and file squirming. The Legal effort is in a shambles after the Section 22 fiasco. Fingers are pointing, loyalties are being questioned. All they have left is to somehow prove they were "tricked" into voting for the MOU. Late October is shaping up to be a train wreck for all of them. RR (cue a junior West Class member telling me how bad I have it out East.)
Well, that's news to me. The only divide I'm aware of is the one on the east between the DOH or die crowd and the let's get the $&;! off LOA 93 crowd. What do I know though, I'm on the outside.

Bean

Survey says:

Balderdash!
 
And we can trust TUFKAU* because why???

*the union formerly known as #s$p@, I don't want Cleary suing me for using 'his' name. :lol: B) 🙄

Interesting how they never actually debate the issues. PHX showed him a lettter, PD quotes it and then responds with unrelated rants. RR
 
There has been a subtle shift here from the West Class. For years we have been told the NIC would crammed down on us in court. Now the focus seems to be on us not getting DOH, and how little moneys we make. The idea the NIC will ever actually be implemented on this property is long remote, rather now impossible. That mindset has finally migrated West. (cue a junior West Class pilot telling us the Nic is the list) RR


Mindset?

The criminal mindset is a part of an Usapian's DNA.

"In one recent study, scientists examined 21people with antisocial personality disorder – a condition that characterizes many convicted criminals. Those with the disorder "typically have no regard for right and wrong. They may often violate the law and the rights of others," according to the Mayo Clinic."

http://m.livescience.com/13083-criminals-brain-neuroscience-ethics.html


"
 
You make my point.

As for the grievance, the east biased posters 'claimed' to have inside knowledge. I know there was nothing published for the west pilots either confirming or denying the filing yet it keeps coming up on this board.

As for my payments, not a worry to me. I needed to give up Starbucks and other assorted 'road food'. A fair trade to me.

Again, it seems that Slamdanceski is on a fishing expedition, after all you have the gold standard on your side and west seniority is nothing more than a crew meal to you...

PS I wasn't being coy. More of a put up or shut up.

MoreCowbell.jpg
Ok. YOU aren't being coy.

What about CallowayCaddy? He hadn't posted for a month but he jumped out of the shadows in a matter of minutes to respond about a grievance denial that "may or may not" have been denied (I mean filed 🙂 ).

Why did Cleardirect disappear when the "maybe or maybe not grievance denial" became public?

Why keep asking all these coy questions of East pilots.. You are increasing your donations. Just ask Marty, CB, and Ferggie... Will they categorically deny there was never a Sec 22 grievance filed by any West pilots?

Somebody set up "nicisthenic.com" and they seem to argue that individual West pilots should hedge their bet by filing individual Sec 22 grievances in case the Leospanker litigation does not produce fruit..

Are we to believe that no West pilot took their advice.. Not even the publishers themselves?

The math isn't adding up.

Hmmmmm... Seems to me, for a monthly donation, you are owed some "clear, direct" answers. If you send me your monthly donations I'll look into it for you! :lol:

 
There has been a subtle shift here from the West Class. For years we have been told the NIC would crammed down on us in court. Now the focus seems to be on us not getting DOH, and how little moneys we make. The idea the NIC will ever actually be implemented on this property is long remote, rather now impossible. That mindset has finally migrated West. (cue a junior West Class pilot telling us the Nic is the list) RR


You'll get the Nic, served with a helping of fava beans and a nice chianti.
 
Other ways of attempting to get the Nicolau Award Seniority list implemented rely on many factors outside the control of individual pilots. The reason to send in your seniority protest letter immediately is quite simple: YOU CONTROL AND CAN FAST-TRACK THE NICOLAU, NOW!
Individual pilots grieving a single contractual issue have a direct, controllable and more effective means of enforcing their seniority rights, via their Collective Bargaining Agreement. Each process (contractual grievance and federal court litigation) is separate and neither hinders nor affects the outcome of the other.
You constantly train to use all resources at your disposal to assure a safe, secure flight outcome. Why on earth would you not use every tool available -- especially your contract -- to finally attain the seniority list that is rightfully yours?

What about other solutions?

Over the past six years, a group of West pilots have pursued the goal of implementing the Nicolau Award through expensive and protracted litigation in the federal court system. Their determination remains unwavering, however the courts have been reluctant and extremely slow to render a decision. Their continuing efforts should be applauded and supported, both emotionally and fifinancially, to keep up their work.

While this litigation group's work is important, it is equally important to note that USAirways pilots have only one bargaining agent, and the litigation group is not (and never will be) such a recognized agent. Further, this group risks muddying their appropriate Nicolau Award-related message, if they persist in attempting to either "represent" or promote bringing additional lists to the seniority list integration process.
This sort of marginalization creates the very real possibility of emboldening other litigious factions to "represent" and promote their own additional separate lists of pilots. Were that the case, the impending seniority integration with American could easily become a 3, 4 or 5 way side show, when it should be solely between USAPA (Nicolau) and APA (American's System Seniority List).
And during the 3-4-5 way side-show, which could slow down list integration and cross-fleeting, there is the real risk of continuing separate operations, much like USAirways and the West pilots have seen from 2007-2013. Don't contribute to the possibility of that happening again!

Remember, you can hedge any eventual litigation outcome by filing your own protest now.

It does not matter who crosses the finish line first, only that they finish and have the Nicolau Seniority List in hand!
You control the fast track. File your protest letter now.

FAST TRACK THE NICOLAU! SEND IN YOUR SENIORITY PROTEST LETTER NOW!

The only thing that was "fast tracked" was the shirtsleeve of the HR guy who shoved it quickly across the mahogany table with a big red DENIED on it.

Seems the finish line for the Nicolau list was merely a gas station tire sale banner mistakenly spotted in the shimmering summer heat of Phoenix.

Mark C. Doyal and the angry Nicolau Club are being fingered in the lone crew room. Ferguson won't even set foot there anymore. He is about as welcome as an east pilot passing through.

Kevin Horner continues to urge his compatriots on while fretting about whether to return to LCC and a grab at the Nic. He downs a new drink called a Metropolitan, breaking into a sweat.

Cleardirect? No longer active. Like Move2CLT, found to have multiple screen names and violations of the rules. Banished.

Have a nice day.
 
Ok. YOU aren't being coy.

What about CallowayCaddy? He hadn't posted for a month but he jumped out of the shadows in a matter of minutes to respond about a grievance denial that "may or may not" have been denied (I mean filed 🙂 ).

Why did Cleardirect disappear when the "maybe or maybe not grievance denial" became public?

Why keep asking all these coy questions of East pilots.. You are increasing your donations. Just ask Marty, CB, and Ferggie... Will they categorically deny there was never a Sec 22 grievance filed by any West pilots?

Somebody set up "nicisthenic.com" and they seem to argue that individual West pilots should hedge their bet by filing individual Sec 22 grievances in case the Leospanker litigation does not produce fruit..

Are we to believe that no West pilot took their advice.. Not even the publishers themselves?

The math isn't adding up.

Hmmmmm... Seems to me, for a monthly donation, you are owed some "clear, direct" answers. If you send me your monthly donations I'll look into it for you! :lol:


[font="Arial""]Simple thing is I have no proof, just a lot of circumstantial evidence like you present, and some crewroom whispers. Sure would be nice if Cactusboy put this all to rest. If he says there are no section 22 grievances filed and responded to by the Company, I will drop it. The truth will come out eventually in Judge Silver's courtroom anyway. RR[/font]
 
Simple thing is I have no proof, just a lot of circumstantial evidence like you present, and some crewroom whispers. Sure would be nice if Cactusboy put this all to rest. If he says there are no section 22 grievances filed and responded to by the Company, I will drop it. The truth will come out eventually in Judge Silver's courtroom anyway. RR
I don't expect any clarifications from CB. Perhaps we will get some more posts about his elation over ignored posts, or maybe he will babble some more while hoping I will relay his musings to the infamous Scotty.

 
Kenneth S. and Rocky C.

Did they get an answer to their protest letters?......

http://nicisthenic.com/senioritydisputeinfo.html
 
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