AWA ALPA Thread 9/28 to 10/05

[EastUS]

The sun rose this morning.

Are you taking credit for that too because you watched it come up?

Talk about delusions of grandeur.

Hmmm...have you thought to offer the AWA contingent those questions? I'm guessing that they'd instantly claim, via having watched it rise and been living on earth at the time, to have "saved" the sun, and instantly demand seniority in excess of earth, sky and sun. Having personally done NOTHING that actually caused the earth's rotation, and merely participated as hostage workers/observers in the unfolding sunrise wouldn't likely deter them from taking any "Rigtheous Position"

 

[prechilill]

Hmmm...have you thought to offer the AWA contingent those questions? I'm guessing that they'd instantly claim, via having watched it rise and been living on earth at the time, to have "saved" the sun, and instantly demand seniority in excess of earth, sky and sun. Having personally done NOTHING that actually caused the earth's rotation, and merely participated as hostage workers/observers in the unfolding sunrise wouldn't likely deter them from taking any "Rigtheous Position"

If you choose to continually misinterpret life then so be it. But considering you are determined to show the world you have a floating standard of integrity and honoring agreements, it doesn't surprise any of us really the reptitive idea you keep crowing about.
Question, have you ever wondered why your own pilot neutral (not to mention the arbitrator which you chose) came up with the Nicolau decision?
Didn't think so...

 

[BottomFeeder]

The sun rose this morning.

Are you taking credit for that too because you watched it come up?

Talk about delusions of grandeur.

Guess you must be blonde if you can't follow this one

Don't worry about it. It was not for you.

 

[P51Pilot]

If you choose to continually misinterpret life then so be it. But considering you are determined to show the world you have a floating standard of integrity and honoring agreements, it doesn't surprise any of us really the reptitive idea you keep crowing about.
Question, have you ever wondered why your own pilot neutral (not to mention the arbitrator which you chose) came up with the Nicolau decision?
Didn't think so...

Did you ever stop to think that certain members of ALPA have agendas, not based on unionism but land grabs as they did with removing mention of DOH from the policy in 91.

If ALPA, plays by those rules, so can we all. I won't have any problem "taking it back" from a corrupt organization of thieves should the opportunity arise. Nothing ALPA ever erects will have my respect or consideration.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Did you ever stop to think that certain members of ALPA have agendas, not based on unionism but land grabs as they did with removing mention of DOH from the policy in 91.

ALPA is against me! The neutral was against me! The company is against me! Nicolau is against me! My neighhor is against me! The government is against me!

Did I forget anything? You know, there's a word for this sort of condition and apparently there is some help available as well:

Schizophrenia, from the Greek roots schizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-, "mind"), is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental illness characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality, most commonly manifesting as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions or disorganized speech and thinking in the context of significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood, with approximately 0.4–0.6% of the population affected.
Late adolescence and early adulthood are peak years for the onset of schizophrenia. These are critical periods in a young adult's social and vocational development, and they can be severely disrupted by disease onset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

If ALPA, plays by those rules, so can we all. I won't have any problem "taking it back" from a corrupt organization of thieves should the opportunity arise. Nothing ALPA ever erects will have my respect or consideration.

It's waaayyy beyond ALPA my friend. You submitted to the arbitration system so "taking it back" sounds good, but it's a lot easier said than done. Now you have to take on city hall, so to speak. Go ahead and try if it makes you feel better; you're futile attempt will be crushed immediately.

 

[P51Pilot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
It's waaayyy beyond ALPA my friend. You submitted to the arbitration system so "taking it back" sounds good, but it's a lot easier said than done. Now you have to take on city hall, so to speak. Go ahead and try if it makes you feel better; you're futile attempt will be crushed immediately.
[/quote]

Hey, I'm in it for me now. That is the new ALPA union paradigm after all. If walking through a line took back what was stolen, I could do it with head held high and both middle fingers up. But your right, I doubt the opportunity will ever arise because ALPA knows what would happen. They have doomed this profession to division and mediocrity.

 

[EastUS]

If you choose to continually misinterpret life then so be it. But considering you are determined to show the world you have a floating standard of integrity and honoring agreements , it doesn't surprise any of us really the reptitive idea you keep crowing about.
Question, have you ever wondered why your own pilot neutral (not to mention the arbitrator which you chose) came up with the Nicolau decision?
Didn't think so...

Hmmm. Any chance for having that auto-babble translated into english? :blink:

 

[EastUS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
They have doomed this profession to division and mediocrity.

And the sorry sorts that comprise the "leadership" of that "union" would care about that.......why? They're getting their pensions/large pay scales/etc. The hapless buffoons paying all those Alp dues keep Prater and similar swine up in handsome style....half a million per year/etc. NOTHING has been rung up by ALpo as ANY actual advancement of the "profession" (nowadays rendered into a sad joke) in literally decades. The best compensated pilots around have their own, non Alpo representation. The evidently total fools out west simply do not get ANY aspect of the bigger picture here...after all...isn't St Nic great?...Sigh...Words simply fail me,.

 

[cactusboy53]

PRESIDENT'S DEPARTMENT

AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL

October 1, 2007

Captain Jack Stephan, Chairman US Airway MEC

Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l

One Thom Run Center, Suite 400

1187 Thorn Run Road

Coraopolis, PA. 15108

Dear Jack:

Since the day the seniority award was announced, the Executive Council, other national officers, and I have worked tirelessly with you, your MEC, and line pilots to try to find positive solutions that would provide career protection, economic gains, and quality-of-life improvements for all US Airways pilots. I hope you would be the first to say that we have never given up on the US Airways pilots and have provided every possible avenue for you and your MEC to be heard.

The numerous individual and joint MEC meetings, crew room visits, domicile meetings, as well as meetings of the Joint Negotiating Committee, the Rice Committee, and, ultimately, the Executive Council, led to. the Executive Council resolutions affirming ALPA's positions regarding this situation, which we all must now abide by. This is why I am very concerned with the outcome of recent meetings of your MEC and am writing to request that you immediately call a special MEC meeting, to be held no later than October 8, to deal with these critical matters.

Let me be clear: Prompt corrective action by the MEC is necessary for compliance with fundamental obligations under our Constitution and By-Laws and policies with respect to the AAA-AWA merger. This is also required to overcome the MEC's failure to respond to and defend against efforts by an independent organization (USAPA) to displace the Association as bargaining representative.

I have attempted to work out these matters and would have much preferred that the MEC act on its own initiative, without my request. But at this point the combination of action and inaction on the part of the MEC exposes the Association to truly detrimental consequences.

With respect to the AAA-AWA merger, it is time for the MEC to comply with its representational and legal obligations under the Constitution & By-Laws, ALPA Merger Policy, the Transition Agreement, and implementing resolutions of the Executive Council. The MEC; at this meeting, should adopt a resolution (or resolutions) reversing all prior efforts to bar or precondition the continuation of joint negotiations. The MEC should also direct the US Airways members of the Joint Negotiating Committee to resume their full participation in the negotiation of a single agreement covering the merged operation of US Airways and America West, including both parity and parity plus as provided in the Executive Council resolution of September 20, 2007.

Since the Executive Council has determined that there is no ground under ALPA Merger Policy to set aside the seniority award, the MEC should also adopt a resolution recognizing that the award is to be included in the single agreement to be negotiated under the Transition Agreement and Merger Policy, provided only that the Association and all MECs will comply with valid court orders, if any, affecting the terms of the award.

The Rice Committee will continue to work with the MECs and Joint Negotiating Committee to implement this process. You may also wish to contact Captain Mcllvenna to invite the AWA MEC to meet with the AAA MEC to discuss tern's for implementation either before or after the AAA MEC meeting.

It is also time for the US Airways MEC to assume its basic responsibility for defending against the USAPA raid. MEC members are not only status representatives-they are also members of the ALPA Board of Directors-with the clear obligation to preserve ALFA representation for the US Airways pilots.

As of today, the MEC has failed to adopt a single resolution or send a single communication speaking out against this raid. Indeed, to the contrary, some MEC members appear to be at least refusing to support the Association and even expressing support for the USAPA effort. I request that the MEC adopt a resolution expressing full and unreserved support for the continuation of ALFA representation along with continued efforts to resolve all collective bargaining and seniority issues within the Association.

I am ready to have the Association staff assist with making any logistical, travel, hotel, and meeting room arrangements for this special MEC meeting. You are, of course, welcome to hold the meeting at our Washington, D.C., or Herndon offices, and I look forward to having the opportunity to discuss with the MEC any questions concerning the actions set forth in this letter.

I look forward to your positive response and to the outcome of the special MEC meeting so that we can turn our attention to the important work of completing this merger and negotiating a single agreement that will provide very significant improvements in pay, benefits, and career protection to all US Airways pilots. These goals can be achieved only if we work together to preserve Association representation for the entire US Airways pilot group.



In Unity,

Captain John Prater President

cc: • Executive Council Executive Board

 

[Elevation]

For those of you not familiar this is called a "#### Slap" :jerry:

 

[exB717Flyer]

That letter should've been written back in May. Prater only delayed the inevitable and exacerbated the situation by waiting this long. Still, better late than never. If I had to guess the AAA MEC isn't going to do what they're obligated to do. Their failure to serve their constituents will soon be complete. Considering how the AAA rank-and-file refused to recognize the incompetence of their leaders I certainly wouldn't trust them to choose better ones for their USAPA drive.

 

[Tiger 1050]

That letter should've been written back in May. Prater only delayed the inevitable and exacerbated the situation by waiting this long. Still, better late than never. If I had to guess the AAA MEC isn't going to do what they're obligated to do. Their failure to serve their constituents will soon be complete. Considering how the AAA rank-and-file refused to recognize the incompetence of their leaders I certainly wouldn't trust them to choose better ones for their USAPA drive.

I think we are witnessing a stunning display of politics from the east. If they hold their ground and refuse Prater then they will be delt with accordingly. I bet trusteeship... When that is complete the east MEC gets to wash their hands of this situation saying: We never did anything but promote the interests of the east pilots and look what ALPA did to you. Classic. Yet in the end and many years down the road the old will be relpaced with the new and you'll watch this heartburn fade in the twilight along with the most caustic pilot group in the industry... Even if USAPA gets elected.

which brings up another point. USAPA so far, it seems, is also being less than honest concerning the Nic award. They are still touting the chance to overturn the Nic. Why none of the easties can't see this is beyond me. You guys will do one of two things. You'll either bankrupt you new union fighting litigation from the west concerning your illigitimate move to have the award vacated. Or, you'll find you had no move to make regarding the Nic award and thus here you sit with a new union and nothing else. No change to the Nic. No change to the way things are with exception of some new faces in the "MEC."

JMO

 

[Frank Bama]

Finally something worth reading.
Someone should varify this asap.
I heard National secretaries make more than most US Airways pilots. The old man must have typed this one himself....

Can Jihad Jack and Team Taliban be held personally and legally liable for dereliction of duty?
Do we still operate Gitmo?

 

[aquagreen73s]

I heard National secretaries make more han most US Airways pilots. The old man must have typed this one himself....

http://www.unionfacts.org/unions/unionProfile.cfm?id=179

Can Jihad Jack and Team Taliban be held personally and legally liable for dereliction of duty?

Yes. In certain fact patterns legal liability can attach to both the entity and the individuals. Normally the individual agents who act reasonably within the scope of their principal-agent relationship are immune from liability. However, there is a point where an agent loses their immunity and becomes personally liable to the principal or to a third party. That point is reached where the agent acts in a way that is outside the scope of the agency agreement. An example could possibly be where an MEC chairman unreasonably permits another bargaining agent to solicit new members in an attempt to replace the principal as the bargaining agent. Another example would be where the actions of certain individuals unreasonably increases the potential legal liability of the principal towards a third party such as the AWA pilots. In essence, agency law won't protect the agent who recklessly acts in a way which gets the principal sued.

 

[traderjake]

Guess you must be blonde if you can't follow this one

Don't worry about it. It was not for you.

Guess you're an East hardliner who doesn't understand the English language.

How did that DOH strategy work out, smart guy?