Award will NOT be vacated

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

According to US Airways MEC chairman Jack Stephan, "Our initial reading of the document is positive as it does not seem to harm the position of the AAA pilots. The resolution does not deny our request to have the Nicolau award overturned nor does it authorize the list being sent to US Airways. The EC is of the opinion that taking any action at this time would not be appropriate. A careful reading of the resolution will outline the Executive Council’s stated jurisdiction and role with regard to seniority integration under ALPA Merger Policy and also their acknowledgement of the importance of the issues facing both pilot groups as well as to every member of the Association."

"The resolution states that “merger policy calls for a contract negotiation and agreement process as well as seniority integration, making it evident merger policy must at all times be interpreted and applied in the most practicable manner so as to achieve actual results in the interests of the flight deck crew members involved rather than stalemate and deadlock that lead nowhere.â€￾ The resolution also directs that the work of the Rice Committee be continued to assist both MECs and the JNC in achieving the goal of developing consensual approaches that promote mutual career protection and mutual success, as part of achieving acceptable collective bargaining outcomes that improve pay, benefits, work rules and job security for both groups. After this committee has had an opportunity to work with both groups and report back, the EC will then consider whether or not further action on this issue is warranted," Stephan said.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Cactus737]

Clue,
The list will always be there. If East has it's way (and they are the big majority) a new union will come on the property and that list will stay in UFO land. Simply put, I feel bad for Parker, this ALPA mess really has the company by the balls. Easties really don't give a crap anymore and they'll do whatever it takes to protect their senority. You have two groups at war with each other, what does that tell you? And why? It's all because of ALPA's cluster f&#k. You're all nuts to keep them on the property - get rid of them, they're useless.

Later,
Eye

We may all be nuts to keep ALPA, but our reason to keep it is highlighted in your second sentence "if East has it's way".

You guys obviously haven't thought much about this new union, have you?

I assure you, with 1800+ West pilots not paying dues and trying to bust it, the new union - with it's extremely limited resources - will fail to thrive. East's rule over the combined group is much more effective under the current ALPA roll-call system

 

[EastUS]

I'm still a little foggy on how a new union will vacate the arbitrated award. Trust me, ALPA lost on this side too, so what next?

I've always been of the opinion that Alpo will just tap dance around ther award nightmare for as long as it can. Either way they go they're going to be sued. Assuming a new union, and any notions of a joint contract, and given that the east has the majority in numbers....all that Alpo's done in total is to open Pandora's Box. Anything's possible in the future. A contract could be ratified that bases pay primarily upon longevity for an extreme example. One thing's for certain = this is a monstrous mess for both sides....Thanks a lot Alpo :down:

Cactus737: "I assure you, with 1800+ West pilots not paying dues and trying to bust it, the new union - with it's extremely limited resources - will fail to thrive. East's rule over the combined group is much more effective under the current ALPA roll-call system"

Well...I can assure you that you've zero idea of how things may/will turn out,...none of us do at present.

I'm willing to bet that within your 1800+ that there's some notable number also disgusted with Alpo for starters.

 

[Cactus737]

I'm willing to bet that within your 1800+ that there's some notable number also disgusted with Alpo for starters.

That's definitely true. We had a decert drive here not that long ago. The reason it failed was not because of an overwhelming love of ALPA - but because the lack of a better alternative.

The same problem exists in this drive - but worse. Even the ALPA haters out West won't turn in cards. The lack of interest in a decert from the West should not be mistaken as love for ALPA by any means, but only as a means to avoid the next several years fighting legal and representational battles, all the while the company whipsaws, and nobody gets raises.

You guys should be thrilled with ALPA - they're not turning in the list and are trying to get us to negotiate. Won't work - but it's alot more than your MEC will ever do for you.

 

[EastUS]

That's definitely true. We had a decert drive here not that long ago. The reason it failed was not because of an overwhelming love of ALPA - but because the lack of a better alternative.

The same problem exists in this drive - but worse. Even the ALPA haters out West won't turn in cards. The lack of interest in a decert from the West should not be mistaken as love for ALPA by any means, but only as a means to avoid the next several years fighting legal and representational battles, all the while the company whipsaws, and nobody gets raises.

You guys should be thrilled with ALPA - they're not turning in the list and are trying to get us to negotiate. Won't work - but it's alot more than your MEC will ever do for you.

Fully concur that this whole situation's a nightmare for all of us. My reasons for wishing Alpo gone started years before this seniority debacle surfaced...said debacle being yet another of Alpo's brilliant contributions to the line pilots, and our working conditions and wages/etc. They've truly produced a Gordian Knot this time...and it's hurting all of us here, east/west together.

Their only reasons that I believe to be in play for not turning over the list are that they're stalling, in hopes of avoiding a decert via running the clock, whilst providing false hopes of a happy ending for all concerned, as well as putting off the litigation that will follow regardless of their current actions.

 

[EastUS]

It also has a pretty clear section that points to national taking over the East if they don't cooperate fully in obtaining a joint contract.

Receivership is coming. No votes for the East.

Given that I very much want Alpo dismissed from the property...I can only hope that they'd be so foolish as to attempt such

 

[allstrike]

Oh no Now what ??

 

[EastUS]

Oh no Now what ??

For the moment? = Nothing. They're stalling for time, and their waffling's just adding momentum to the decert movement.

 

[AWA320]

Everybody knew ALPA was useless. Good thing they'll be given the old heave-ho very soon. Westies are you ready for a new union ride? Woo hoo!
Later,
Eye

Eastern CAL part two!! Here is where there is a new union supported completely by east dollars. The west will not contribute nor will they participate. So you have two pilot groups doing the direct opposite. Oh I can't wait, I can see the BK coming.

Headlines, East sinks the ship now the set out to sink the life boat as well. You guys really are special.

 

[AAAPOS]

Seriously, the AAA MEC will fail again. I've never seen a group that so often should have zigged when they zagged and vice versa. Its almost comical if it werent so sad. At every critical turn for the past six years the AAA Mec has made the exact opposite decision that would have benefited the pilots. Fools. And you keep listening to them. Those alpa lobster dinners must be nice because those guys will do anything it takes to keep those cush jobs. Wake up.

PS The decert is a pipe dream at this point.

 

[EastUS]

Those alpa lobster dinners must be nice because those guys will do anything it takes to keep those cush jobs. Wake up.

PS The decert is a pipe dream at this point.

Well...at least we agree on your first point We'll see as to how the "pipe dream" works out in time.

 

[Junebug172]

Junebug,

According to US Airways MEC chairman Jack Stephan, "Our initial reading of the document is positive as it does not seem to harm the position of the AAA pilots. The resolution does not deny our request to have the Nicolau award overturned nor does it authorize the list being sent to US Airways. The EC is of the opinion that taking any action at this time would not be appropriate. A careful reading of the resolution will outline the Executive Council’s stated jurisdiction and role with regard to seniority integration under ALPA Merger Policy and also their acknowledgement of the importance of the issues facing both pilot groups as well as to every member of the Association."

"The resolution states that “merger policy calls for a contract negotiation and agreement process as well as seniority integration, making it evident merger policy must at all times be interpreted and applied in the most practicable manner so as to achieve actual results in the interests of the flight deck crew members involved rather than stalemate and deadlock that lead nowhere.â€￾ The resolution also directs that the work of the Rice Committee be continued to assist both MECs and the JNC in achieving the goal of developing consensual approaches that promote mutual career protection and mutual success, as part of achieving acceptable collective bargaining outcomes that improve pay, benefits, work rules and job security for both groups. After this committee has had an opportunity to work with both groups and report back, the EC will then consider whether or not further action on this issue is warranted," Stephan said.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Stephan also told you that you were going to get DOH.

Stephan also told you that you were going to get pay parity.

Stephan also told you that those on the furlough list would not be removed after bypassing recall a second time.

Stephan said, Stephan said. How many times do you guys need to be kicked in the nuts by your own leadership before you say stop?

 

[EastUS]

Stephan also told you that you were going to get DOH.

Stephan also told you that you were going to get pay parity.

Stephan also told you that those on the furlough list would not be removed after bypassing recall a second time.

Stephan said, Stephan said. How many times do you guys need to be kicked in the nuts by your own leadership before you say stop?

Excellent point. Dump Alpo NOW!!

 

[Junebug172]

Excellent point. Dump Alpo NOW!!

Of course its an excellent point.

And dumping ALPA is going to do nothing for any of us except put us on the wrong side of their financial war chest when Doug gets a hard on for another airline.

 

[EastUS]

Of course its an excellent point.

And dumping ALPA is going to do nothing for any of us except put us on the wrong side of their financial war chest when Doug gets a hard on for another airline.

I see. What happened to "How many times do you guys need to be kicked in the nuts by your own leadership before you say stop?" After such rantings...you suddenly think that keeping these clowns is a good idea?