Bob and the Merger Bubble

[The Goose]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I had to present projects with both of them, and to think one would be able to do a better job is more than just a little simplistic.

It's like saying the Koziatek would have done better in 2003. Compared to Little, maybe yes, maybe no. Would Denise Hedges or Pat Gibbs have done a better job in 2003? Maybe yes, maybe no.

Bob was good at managing the growth of AA and getting AA thru deregulation. He didn't know how to deal with the realities of codeshares or alliances, and he made things entirely too personal with the unions. Had he been at the helm in 2003, AA would have restructured the way Steenland did at NWA. Axes swinging without a lot of regard for alternatives... Maybe that's what should have happened, but I for one am glad that calmer heads prevailed.

Employee villification of Arpey seems to center on one issue, and one issue only: executive compensation. Keeping costs low and revenues high is far more important to shareholders and more likely to keep AMR a going concern. Whatever fault you want to find with AMR management, that's one area where AA has excelled compared to the other airlines. Gerard gets it when it comes to cost control. So does Bob. Don? Forget it. He was all about ego, and more worried about his driver showing up on time or his trophy wife getting a first class seat for the day trip to a spa in Houston....

Executive compensation is not the issue for many; rather, the issue is the lying by the management types in 2003 to sell this tripe to the membership.

"Work Together, Win Together" could have been a wonderfully productive arrangement for all concerned but it degenerated into "You Work, We Win". There is not, nor was there ever anything "together" intended about this arrangement from the outset by all appearances.

It's rather evident the TWU had no intention of resubmitting the 2003 contract for another vote; Little knew very good and well it wouldn't pass again after Carty's admission of hiding the SERP until after the vote's arbitrary deadline. That's why he (TWU) went to court and got the ruling (after the fact to uphold his action) that he, as HMFIC, could accept any contract after the first vote with no further voting of the membership (which, FWIW, I believe will happen shortly after any new contract is presented to the TWU membership for a vote). That trip to court ensured the TWU upper ranks' continued employment (dues flow), and gave the company the needed leverage to control the union membership's vote, no doubt after suitable donations and "atonements" (read payola) were made.

I still believe Carty put on a wonderful act (falling on the sword) along with the righteous indignation of one or two BOD members. $46 million to a bankruptcy-proof account for a small group couldn't have happened without the BOD's complicity; bring on the dog-and-pony show. Ol' Don intentionally took a hit for the team by stepping down. I still believe he was planning to leave anyway but not sure of the reason(s) but make a dramatic exit in the interest of employee pacification after his voting "deadline" wasn't met, thanks to the FAs.

I can't speak for others Eric, but those are my complaints . Basically, everyone shares or nobody gets a damned thing regardless of so-called agreements, contracts, gifts (the "Goodness of our Hearts" employee bonus) or position on the food chain. That attitude, if kept, would have removed 95% of the present animosity re: employees vs: management. Let the management types jump ship if they wish - I can "almost" understand how hard it would be to make it on a $500,000 salary without bonuses.

While I don't agree with most of the pilots' tactics, their saying that Arpey and crew "Knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing" is quite accurate and indicates a severe lack of business ability - only an understanding of numbers; not a cool thing when one should be trying to avoid a war with the very people that can help the company.

We don't like liars - especially those on a power trip who continue to lie for the hell of it - even when telling the truth can do them no harm.

 

[The Goose]

He's trying to start another airline, so anytime he sees a microphone, his mouth goes into full gear.

Admire the man all you like, but he hasn't been the head of a major scheduled passenger traffic airline for just over ten years now and for anyone to think he has an inside grip on the way things are today is just mis-directed hero worship.

It is my unbiased opinion that if it were he at the helm of AA right now instead of the overpaid baggage handler they have now, that labor would be bitching just as long and just as loud as they do now - perhaps even moreso.

All the man is trying to do right now is appear to come off as the man with all the answers and a hook to the inside track of what is wrong with large legacy carriers, in order to sound like the consumate airline-gawd to benefit his own upstart. He doesn't have all the answers, he has opinions. If he were to take the reigns of a major carrier right now he would be lost in a world that changed at least three times over since he was last in it.

I remember much of the Crandall years, and most of you old timers hated his guts! Now it seems he's one of the gawds, right up there with Zeus and Apollo.

If he were any good or of any use at all, I would think that AMR would hire him as a consultant and negotiator for their now due union contracts. But he isn't, and they didn't.

Leave him be and let him have his little five seater skeeter jet upstart. He'll have to pay the same price for fuel, probably more, as the rest of them and he'll be dealing with his own labor problems. If he grows the upstart like he claims he can, it won't be long before the unions are knocking on his door too! :disguise:

Now that I've poo pooed on your Uncle Bobby, how many tongue lashings do I win? Or do I get the golden prize for saying what thousands of your co-workers agree with?

You're right without a doubt. It's been said many times that everyone wants what they don't or can't have.

There was a rumor floating around that the AMR BOD did talk to Crandall at one point, but there never was any confirmation, either pro or con. The rest of the rumor had it that Crandall wanted to run AMR like a real business but the board couldn't handle that thought.

Really though, all we're trying to do is get in a good whine before some of us go to work this pm. Good for the soul, you know.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Executive compensation is not the issue for many; rather, the issue is the lying by the management types in 2003 to sell this tripe to the membership.

"Work Together, Win Together" could have been a wonderfully productive arrangement for all concerned but it degenerated into "You Work, We Win". There is not, nor was there ever anything "together" intended about this arrangement from the outset by all appearances.

It's rather evident the TWU had no intention of resubmitting the 2003 contract for another vote; Little knew very good and well it wouldn't pass again after Carty's admission of hiding the SERP until after the vote's arbitrary deadline. That's why he (TWU) went to court and got the ruling (after the fact to uphold his action) that he, as HMFIC, could accept any contract after the first vote with no further voting of the membership (which, FWIW, I believe will happen shortly after any new contract is presented to the TWU membership for a vote). That trip to court ensured the TWU upper ranks' continued employment (dues flow), and gave the company the needed leverage to control the union membership's vote, no doubt after suitable donations and "atonements" (read payola) were made.

I still believe Carty put on a wonderful act (falling on the sword) along with the righteous indignation of one or two BOD members. $46 million to a bankruptcy-proof account for a small group couldn't have happened without the BOD's complicity; bring on the dog-and-pony show. Ol' Don intentionally took a hit for the team by stepping down. I still believe he was planning to leave anyway but not sure of the reason(s) but make a dramatic exit in the interest of employee pacification after his voting "deadline" wasn't met, thanks to the FAs.

I can't speak for others Eric, but those are my complaints . Basically, everyone shares or nobody gets a damned thing regardless of so-called agreements, contracts, gifts (the "Goodness of our Hearts" employee bonus) or position on the food chain. That attitude, if kept, would have removed 95% of the present animosity re: employees vs: management. Let the management types jump ship if they wish - I can "almost" understand how hard it would be to make it on a $500,000 salary without bonuses.

While I don't agree with most of the pilots' tactics, their saying that Arpey and crew "Knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing" is quite accurate and indicates a severe lack of business ability - only an understanding of numbers; not a cool thing when one should be trying to avoid a war with the very people that can help the company.

We don't like liars - especially those on a power trip who continue to lie for the hell of it - even when telling the truth can do them no harm.

BINGO..you said it all.

From somebody who reluctantly was part of the "Pull Together, Win Together" concept on a National level, the dishonesty, greed and lack of leadership at that crucial juncture was and still is the biggest letdown to many. As a result, we have nothing but super fueled animosity towards management here at AA. It didn't have to be this way....or at least, this bad....
jmo

 

[WingNaPrayer]

BINGO..you said it all.

As a result, we have nothing but super fueled animosity towards management here at AA.

Truth be told, AA could cut loose 50% of it's middle management and I think they would find the show would run just fine, if not better in many cases, without them. Regardless of the cutbacks, AA is still extremely management heavy. I know sometimes you have to be, especially if you are anticipating a strike, but many of their managers I've ever witnessed wouldn't be able to fill any employee's shoes if a strike did occur, they simply don't know how to do the job, so how they can manage those that do is a mystery.

 

[eolesen]

\many of their managers I've ever witnessed wouldn't be able to fill any employee's shoes if a strike did occur, they simply don't know how to do the job, so how they can manage those that do is a mystery.

I agree that most of the managers and CSM's couldn't do the job their direct reports do, but what incentive is there for someone already at max to consider going into management? So they can be sh*t on from both directions? There certainly isn't any financial incentive...

 

[The Goose]

I agree that most of the managers and CSM's couldn't do the job their direct reports do, but what incentive is there for someone already at max to consider going into management? So they can be sh*t on from both directions? There certainly isn't any financial incentive...

Eric, there you have what has happened to AA since you left - there's no incentive at all for a competent individual to join the Dark Side.

 

[eolesen]

Sorry, Goose, but it was that way 20 years ago. It wasn't that unusuall to have the topped out union guys earning more than their supervisors were, even without overtime.

 

[The Goose]

Sorry, Goose, but it was that way 20 years ago. It wasn't that unusuall to have the topped out union guys earning more than their supervisors were, even without overtime.

I guess then that the animal side of human nature is the guiding influence after all. Just like a bad cop - the pay is incidental to the authority figure one becomes with the addition of a badge and a weapon but in this example, a friggin' blue shirt.

It's a damned shame - that's all AA can get for supervision yet that's the type of individual they need the least in the job.

 

[eolesen]

So, you don't subscribe to the idea of being compensated for taking on added responsibility? Then why pay a crew chiefs more than a regular wrench or bag smasher? Shouldn't the authority figure status be payment enough?... 😉

I see nothing wrong or unethical with paying a manager modestly more than the people they oversee (i.e. 15-25%). 50% or 600% seems to be a little harder to justify. Unfortunately, the way AA does their pay increases for someone moving into management, whatever increase one gets for their "promotion" gets erased within one or two years by step increases and the lack of overtime. Not to mention the total lack of flexibility in being able to plan your life. As a wrench or clerk, you get to walk at your off-time unless you're white slipped. Management at the airports don't get that luxury from my first-hand experience.