The IAM and U mgmt. have an idea of what a worst-case outcome looks like if a judge abrogates the agreement. The IAM's goal at this point is probably to construct an "alternative outcome" that will allow for better wages than what U is proposing or the Judge might order. Could this mean that the IAM is currently working with an alternative suitor to the TPG? Given the union's track record with other airline restructurings, I'd venture to say yes...
- Thread Starter
- #17
How on earth did the IAM give more than the Pilots ERP1 proposal? If you are talking about deferral of 500million in back pay then I guess my school system math is wrong. The pilots TA gave 520million in real give backs not just delays in receiving back pay. 520 >0 I think. IAM came up with unrealistic business models at Eastern as well. Let see, we think them darn pilots and FA's should take paycuts, we should get payraises and let us appoint the new CEO and all your problems are solved. That is the IAM playbook on developing the business plan. It's as if they take the exact same play book off the shelve and blow the dust off everytime one of their airlines is going out of business. Charlie Bryant is the Poster Child for the IAM and it's leadership. Name one, just one, airline that has teetered on the edge that the IAM ever helped in a real way, not just a proposal. At each of those airlines look at which employee groups already had concessionary contracts in place. Charlie Bryant is IAM personified.
I am counting the back pay as a concession, since it amounts to a de facto $500+ million loan for UAL until it is paid.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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It is only a concession if and when it is NOT paid and NEVER to be paid. Until then it is a loan... with interest. Granted, it IS a contribution that helps the company, and should be considered in the big picture. But it is not a concession yet.
Now if the mechanics agree to give it up permanently as payment toward the cost savings the company is looking for, then that's a different story. Maybe their leadership is thinking about this. I guess we'll find out soon.
Now if the mechanics agree to give it up permanently as payment toward the cost savings the company is looking for, then that's a different story. Maybe their leadership is thinking about this. I guess we'll find out soon.
"Name one, just one, airline that has teetered on the edge that the IAM ever helped in a real way, not just a proposal."
NWA?
NWA?
- Thread Starter
- #21
That is questionable but I do have to give that one to you. IAM was replaced by AMFA so that says something.
Yes. In 1994 I accepted almost a 20% reduction in pay and work rules. I kept making this contribution until March of 2002.
Without getting deeply involved in this thread, let me make a few points:
First of all, don't think that the IAM = Mechanics because this is simply what we were shoved into. Who shoved us into it? How about the government via the NMB. Why do you think that cleaners and fuelers are included in our class and craft? Because they work on the airplane? Well Flight Attendants (bless their hearts) FLY on the airplanes, but are they members of ALPA?
The IAM has tried to appease the Mechanics and stave off the inevitable migration to AMFA by creating 141-M but it's just a shell game. Again the government is involved via the NMB. The last representational dispute was a classic "in your face" example. After the cards had been collected and the collection action closed, several thousand new members were added to the class and craft. We're talking about people who are not even in the IAM at all, salaried people, planners, analysts, whoever - just enough to dilute the card count below 50% so that no vote was ever taken.
And the NMB's decision is final, no appeal, no discussion.
So don't believe for a minute that the Mechanics are a bunch of stooges following the likes of Buffy and Scotchy. If you watch very carefully you will see that the IAM's actions are all based solely on what they know the Mechanics are going to vote. It's the old "tail wagging the dog" and you'd think that that would be a good thing but hey, these guys are sneeeeky.
But predictable.
When the company presented it's latest demands the ALPA rep simply pushed it back across the table, the AFA rep never actually touched it, but the IAM rep took it home to "study" it. Do you know why?
Because it was stapled to a box of donuts.
First of all, don't think that the IAM = Mechanics because this is simply what we were shoved into. Who shoved us into it? How about the government via the NMB. Why do you think that cleaners and fuelers are included in our class and craft? Because they work on the airplane? Well Flight Attendants (bless their hearts) FLY on the airplanes, but are they members of ALPA?
The IAM has tried to appease the Mechanics and stave off the inevitable migration to AMFA by creating 141-M but it's just a shell game. Again the government is involved via the NMB. The last representational dispute was a classic "in your face" example. After the cards had been collected and the collection action closed, several thousand new members were added to the class and craft. We're talking about people who are not even in the IAM at all, salaried people, planners, analysts, whoever - just enough to dilute the card count below 50% so that no vote was ever taken.
And the NMB's decision is final, no appeal, no discussion.
So don't believe for a minute that the Mechanics are a bunch of stooges following the likes of Buffy and Scotchy. If you watch very carefully you will see that the IAM's actions are all based solely on what they know the Mechanics are going to vote. It's the old "tail wagging the dog" and you'd think that that would be a good thing but hey, these guys are sneeeeky.
But predictable.
When the company presented it's latest demands the ALPA rep simply pushed it back across the table, the AFA rep never actually touched it, but the IAM rep took it home to "study" it. Do you know why?
Because it was stapled to a box of donuts.
<In the TWA case, the IAM had developed a viable restructuring plan that would have given TWA the work-rule concessions necessary to become cost-competitive and stay out of Chapter 11.>
Avek, what, pray tell, was this 'viable' business plan?
Most observors believe the IAM's unproductive work rules and the inefficiency of the MCI MX facility did a great deal of damage to TWA.
Avek, what, pray tell, was this 'viable' business plan?
Most observors believe the IAM's unproductive work rules and the inefficiency of the MCI MX facility did a great deal of damage to TWA.
- Thread Starter
- #28
I don't like the IAM and generally speaking Mechanics and Pilots don't like each other. I am a pilot and have stated my peace about the IAM leadership, it sucks. That said, I would sincerely hope that the ALPA leadership is walking in lockstep with IAM on the current "concession" proposals. I do not want to fly a plane that will be maintained by children in 3rd world countries making pennies an hour. Our mechanics may have crummy attitudes,[:bigsmile:] but, they are the best in the world at what they do. This is a safety issue plain and simple. The planes won't fall apart immediately but when they do I suspect it will be catastrophic. The media will be outraged that the airline would compromise the traveling publics safety by farming out their maintenance to such unqualified companies. That will be followed by an expose piece on Dateline NBC documenting the criminal acts of UAL management during 200-2002. Of course this will all happen in about 2005. Unite and fight ALPA/IAM/AFA!!!!!!! I am not saying we all don't have to give something, we do and anyone who thinks we don't is mistaken. We just shouldn't have to give it all.[:devil:]
In everyone of these cases one cause that is always cited is "union work rules". This is simply management whining at its best. What work rules? 10 minute breaks? Temp lead pay? No lunch or late lunch compensation? I mean we're talking about a guy maybe getting an extra 8 to 10 bucks here for the day and this is what's destroying United? What about overtime bypasses? That's simply the company screwing up, that's their fault - not the Mechanic's. As for inefficiency of the facilities. Well, when the contract wasn't settled in July 2000 and work output naturally slowed the company decided to "show" us by farming out as much work as they could. So they were paying for the facilities, paying the Mechanics and paying an outside vendor to do their work.
All this while they toss hundreds of millions of dollars into failed spin off ventures. I remember the day they paid a 50 million dollar penalty to US Air for NOT merging with them. I calculated that to be the equivilent of 4000 years of my wages.
If there is one thing United does have it's an abundance of squandered assets in the form of it's employees who are amoung the most experienced and capable in the industry. All they have to do is treat them right. It's that simple.
All this while they toss hundreds of millions of dollars into failed spin off ventures. I remember the day they paid a 50 million dollar penalty to US Air for NOT merging with them. I calculated that to be the equivilent of 4000 years of my wages.
If there is one thing United does have it's an abundance of squandered assets in the form of it's employees who are amoung the most experienced and capable in the industry. All they have to do is treat them right. It's that simple.
The observers are correct. The IAM was set to give TWA the work-rule and JFK mech relief that TWA needed as part of a restructuring package that included financing from other industry entities. However, Compton was "persuaded" by AMR to go the Chapter 11 route instead, and hence many TWAers are now out on the street...
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