The point is labor costs are still costs. You may try to convince us that downtime is generally low, and perhaps it is. But downtime doesnt have to be extensive to be expensive. New planes like the 787 are maintenane pigs. Remember the first new 767's at UAL or ever see the hanger queens, AA's DC10's? It took some time to work out all the kinks, they both eventually excelled and proved to be Great A/C in the end. You just didnt want to be scheduled on one for an important must go business flight.Borescope said:
Cal Fa's Reject T/a
- Thread starter featheroleather
- Start date
No, have not. Have you? Its a sure bet it will be as all new AC have gone through a period of working out the bugs. If they come on line and work out with No problems I will say I was wrong. Based on previous models from Boeing, Douglas, and Airbus. They have all gone through a shake down period.Borescope said:And you know this because you have done maintaince on them right??
[post="259842"][/post]
skycruiser said:
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skycruiser,
Please allow me to "think" you have "some" clue, as to what the true function is of a union.
(Though your post CERTAINLY gives me GREAT doubt) !!!!!!!!!
Question .
Since when is it the responsibility of one union person(in this case a senior one), to ensure that another union person (in this case a junior one) does'nt get laid off ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
A union is about a democracy !! MAJORITY RULES !!
The MAJORITY indicated to the company, "TO take their offer and stick it up their A$$" CASE CLOSED !!!!!!!!!!
skycruiser, that's where the word "RE-NEGOTIATION" enter's the picture.
Do you follow me, skycruiser ?????????????
NH/BB's
Ah, it's a moot point anyway !!
This just further convinces me that what I've been saying on the NW board will become reality even sooner, and that's that a certain percentage of present CO employees, will be working for a company based in Eagan Mn., and has RED paint on the tails of their A/C.
NH/BB's
This just further convinces me that what I've been saying on the NW board will become reality even sooner, and that's that a certain percentage of present CO employees, will be working for a company based in Eagan Mn., and has RED paint on the tails of their A/C.
NH/BB's
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 587
<_< Now, Now Bear! Don't your blood presure up!!!!Remember! Your on the outside looking in!!!!But I believe your correct! This Industry will look a whole lot differant in a couple of years! If not sooner!NewHampshire Black Bears said:
OK guys, we voted NO because of the crappy high pressure sell job we were getting from the company and the IAM to accept the TA among other things.
Next, the IAM had their own agenda: increase in "union bank hours", offices on the property, and the IAM pension become our primary "A" plan. The result the IAM gets richer, FA's get poorer, and then we are joined at the hip of the IAM forever. The IAM wants this because they are trying to put down an organizing attempt by an independent FA union made up of CAL FA's.
Meanwhile, the company is crying doom and gloom if we do not give them what they want. A/C sold or subleased, no expansion, no new airplanes, furloughs, etc. We as FA's have never seen a company and a union work in concert together! You would think that the company and union were the same entity. And the IAM wonders why they have lost hundreds of thousands of members over the years?
The FA's realize what our co-workers are now giving up plenty, we realize that we will have to give some too, but do not threaten us! You know a lot of FA's would have voted yes to the TA if the IAM had not gotten so greedy in it, and the company and the IAM had applied the cuts evenly across all seniority brackets. Instead they made the most senior FA's, and FA's who fly international take the largest hit. The reserves got no non cost quality of life improvements that they were desperately wanting.
So in the end, the rejected TA would have made the company and the IAM richer, and pitted FA against FA. Sorry the divide and conquer tactics are not working. Try again!
Next, the IAM had their own agenda: increase in "union bank hours", offices on the property, and the IAM pension become our primary "A" plan. The result the IAM gets richer, FA's get poorer, and then we are joined at the hip of the IAM forever. The IAM wants this because they are trying to put down an organizing attempt by an independent FA union made up of CAL FA's.
Meanwhile, the company is crying doom and gloom if we do not give them what they want. A/C sold or subleased, no expansion, no new airplanes, furloughs, etc. We as FA's have never seen a company and a union work in concert together! You would think that the company and union were the same entity. And the IAM wonders why they have lost hundreds of thousands of members over the years?
The FA's realize what our co-workers are now giving up plenty, we realize that we will have to give some too, but do not threaten us! You know a lot of FA's would have voted yes to the TA if the IAM had not gotten so greedy in it, and the company and the IAM had applied the cuts evenly across all seniority brackets. Instead they made the most senior FA's, and FA's who fly international take the largest hit. The reserves got no non cost quality of life improvements that they were desperately wanting.
So in the end, the rejected TA would have made the company and the IAM richer, and pitted FA against FA. Sorry the divide and conquer tactics are not working. Try again!
Borescope said:If you read their agreement with Boeing (SEC Filing), they aren't "Paying" for these aircraft. They are Leasing them with no up front cash. As soon as they put them into service they will generate revenue which will be used to pay the leases. Maintaince will be covered by Boeing since they will all be under warrantee. Cost for the aircraft will be minimal to CAL. Congrats to they employees at CAL who actually see what is happening in the industry and realize they aren't isolated from it's problems. FA's, BOHICA, only deeper. Oh, and don't forget the vasoline your going to need it
[post="259721"][/post]
Great idea!!!
We are in a market with excess capacity and the savior is going to be additional capacity. :down:
Brilliant!!!
UTCALFLYBOY said:
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CALFLYBOY,
Excellent Job !!
For everyone else, who, may have forgotten, NEVER KNEW, or, would like to know, "THAT.S WHAT UNIONISM IS ALL ABOUT" !!!!!!!!!
Now I can start my day, on a high note !! (a LEGAL high note) :unsure:
NH/BB's
- Thread Starter
- #26
A few "yes" pilots I spoke to are pissed that the all or nothing scenario played out by the company didnt quite work out that way.Its been many moons since the f/a's here at CAL feel that mgmt AND the union cant take us for granted.
This is exactly what we're doing at UAL, so I guess we'll all be in the sinking boat together, Right?UAL_TECH said:Great idea!!!
We are in a market with excess capacity and the savior is going to be additional capacity. :down:Â
Brilliant!!!
[post="259886"][/post]
FA Mikey said:
It's working so far!Once AA files Ch.11, how long do you think they'll be in it for?
