Cal Fa's Reject T/a
- Thread starter featheroleather
- Start date
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
Veteran
- Oct 9, 2003
- 1,401
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AA wasn't going to file bankruptcy in 2003 and they will definitely not file in the future. If AA filed for bankruptcy, Arpey,Carty and their cronies would be exposed for the crooks they are and would be bound for prison.
Way to go Continental F/A's! Somebody has got to say NO! Now Continental management will threaten bankruptcy to get a YES vote. I would say to CAL management "Go ahead make my day PUNK!"
Way to go Continental F/A's! Somebody has got to say NO! Now Continental management will threaten bankruptcy to get a YES vote. I would say to CAL management "Go ahead make my day PUNK!"
Give it a rest. If nobody went to prison in the UA and US bankruptcies, nobody'd go in an AA bankruptcy. There are plenty of good reasons for AA to stay out of bankruptcy; your brand of yellow journalism isn't one of them.PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
You just keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.FA Mikey said:
(Has AA posted any profitable quarters lately? Any profitable quarters on the horizon with oil nearing $60/barrel? For how long can the bleeding continue?)
Bear96 said:
Don't know how long the bleeding can continue but they have about $3 billion in cash and they still have a few aircraft left that they can borrow against. Additionally, they can sell assets; like AMR Investment Services (which I think they will because they just rebranded it), Eagle and the like. They can also issue some more unsecured debt to raise cash and they could probably get advance payments from the credit card companies (like Delta did). However, issuing more debt just puts them deeper into the hole.
Dont have to tell myself its all over the web and the street. AA wont file BK they have cash and assets. They have a business plan, that is something other than sitting in BK and getting extention after extention with out filing a reorganization plan. Its sad to see UAL in this shape and no plan for the future other than screwing the hard working employees out of there pay and benefits.Bear96 said:
Profitable quarters? No, not since 2003. I am sure though we will be there long before UAL is.
How long can the bleeding continue? Not sure I look at UAL and U and wonder that myself.
Some of that word on the street. prudential comments on air carriers
Bear96 said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bear96,
When oil goes to $80 a barrel, tell me honestly, if you choose to do so, where will US,UA,DL and CO be at that point in time ?????????
I know where AA,NW and WN will be, FLYING THEIR RESPECTIVE ROUTES, "PLUS" EVERYTHING ELSE THEY ACQUIRED FROM THE "DEAD" US,UA,DL and CO carcases !!
NH/BB's
Borescope said:
And you think we are not sinking?
We are Still loosing +/-$3 mill a day.
Adding capacity to the Asia market will simply do the same for it as it has done to the domestic market.
'OVER CAPICITY' + 'CHEAP TICKETS' <> 'PROFIT'
For the U'tanic to tell the rest of the community that 'they' are sinking speaks of the myopia that plagues some of the UA 'die hard(s)'.
UTmweiss said:
Considering the number of posts that you have made in a short period, one might consider you a 'yellow journalist'.
KIDAGAKASH is not (at least on this forum) a journalist and (IMHO) is only speaking her mind (as are you???).
If one considers recent historical events in regards to judicial punishment meted for the kind hearted souls that have raped their employees for their own personal wealth, would you not agree that a bit of cynicism is justified?
UTNewHampshire Black Bears said:
U is already all but gone, no matter what.
UA is following closely behind. If oil goes to $80, that will probably do 'em in too.
DL, CO, and AA are on the verge. DL and CO a little closer than AA, but it cracks me up to hear AA people think they are somehow "entitled" not to go into BK. A lot of UA-ers had that attitude a couple of years ago too. "UA? In bankruptcy? Ha ha ha ha! What're you smoking?" Well, those folks have had a little wake-up call, haven't they.
It's amazing how fast things can change these days in this business. And ALL the legacies are in grave danger. I think it likely that DL, CO, and AA will all be making a little Ch.11 trip in the not-so-distant future.
That IS UA's business plan -- stay in BK as long as the judge will let 'em and extend as long as possible their exclusive right to file a POR. I am sure the post-BK "plan" is all ready to go (though no doubt is being tweaked regularly to account for the latest changes in the industry as they occur) but they aren't going to show it until the judge finally tires of this strategy. No sign of that so far, though.FA Mikey said:
That kinda sounds like AA's plan too, doesn't it?
LOL great plan. Do you really believe that? What purpose does it serve to be in BK and still losing millions daily. What does UAL pay the legal team over seeing this BK a month. 20 million? More? Brilliant is you believe such garbage.Bear96 said:
Not really, got screwed by a union president who worked with his friends and the company to secure a yes vote for cuts. I still have a pension and health benefits. Our retiree's do as well. They were even expanded last year to include other things we didn't have coverage for.Bear96 said:
Those have been the only cuts asked for or received. Cannot say the same for the BK carriers who even after are still losing multiple times over what the carriers outside of BK are losing.
Doesn't matter what I "believe" -- I am simply observing what they are doing. I didn't say it was a good plan or a bad plan, but that appears to be the strategy.FA Mikey said:
So do UA F/As (as well as things like crew meals -- remember those?). But not to fear -- defined benefit pensions are about to become a thing of the past for F/As. That includes AA F/As. You can take that to the bank. You think AA and the few others who still have them will keep their DB pension plans when the competition doesn't have such liabilities? Gotta stay competitive with JB and WN and soon Virgin America, y'know! Some airline positions may retain pensions, but with the F/A group, which is a largely unskilled group (meaning there are LOTS of qualified people lined up and willing to work it without pensions), they are gone.
Mikey, you sound awfully defensive. And you have a habit of constantly working in how much worse UA has it for some reason, which is largely if not entirely irrelevant to AA's problems. (For the record, I no longer earn my living from UA; I have seen the writing on the wall and moved on so it no longer really worries me how bad things are there, so if you are trying to work in UA barbs to attack me, it really doesn't work.)
Obviously UA is in worse shape than AA at the moment. But take a look around. The business plans of the legacies -- ALL of them -- are not sustainable. They most likely cannot adopt to the changes fast enough. I know it is hard to see that from the perspective of someone still caught up in the madness and who feels he has already given "enough" and the worst is behind him. But from a more neutral, outside perspective, it is plain that all of the majors have some very ugly times ahead of them.
OK lets see you are only an observer of the company you work for and there plans. But for the competition you state, we can take it to the bank. I don't think so. Its a contractual item. Outside of BK it can be negotiated away for something of equal value. Since we have an aging work force I doubt that you will see (small as it is) the FA's willing to play with that money.Bear96 said:
Yes, WN does have a retirement plan. The others you list are to young and will given time. AA has been keeping it obligations to our plan. With the stock market rising its likely that they will see the gap between funded and underfund close or change to over funded. AA may also figure the alternatives are more expensive, than status quo. They only outrageous plans in the company, exists for the pilots. As far as people lined up to do this job, gone are those days.Bear96 said:
The job maybe classified as unskilled, but I have found the level of education and the back grounds of many of these people I hawork with to be quite extensive. I am sure if something happened to AA the FA's will do just fine for themselves in the job market.
Really coming from the guy who posts right after me each time saying how AA is about to get it, and how AA is next to sink. I dont sound as defensive.Bear96 said:
You are heading in to 2 1/2 years in BK with no end in sight. Losing 3 million plus dollars a day. Then explain how much better of AUL is to AA?Bear96 said:
Your company is completely relevant as you guys bring down the bar on wage and benefits. As your company was dropping fares in an attempt to get some revenue to stay afloat. U and UAL sinking and trying to bringing the down the rest of the industry with them.
As if I care how and where you derive your income from. You seem very tied to UAL and needing to post here quite a bit for it being irrelevant.Bear96 said:
There are no barbs directed at you, but your company. Try not to take it so personal, after all you no longer make your living there, Right.
Not with BK companies bringing down the industry filling the air with seats below cost.Bear96 said:
I frankly do not see major changes happening. I have not given anything I had my pay adjusted against my will and that of the majority. Spare us the neutral outside perspective, its BS and you know it. The ugly times will continue until the industry house cleaning is in order. The failed carriers must be shut down and let the stronger try to survive. If such a time comes where AA is the weaker I will advocate pulling the plus.Bear96 said:
