Changing the way I select an ‘Airline of Choice’
- Thread starter Singleflyer
- Start date
vantheman63
Senior
Sadly, I'm 110% convinced this "change in the way we do business" will fail....badly. The only two real questions are (a.) can they figure it out in time to make changes and (b.) how long will they continue to test it.
The Sand Fleas at the Sand Castle forgot....they have ZERO "pricing power" or ability to set the market. That belongs now to WN on the (true) LCC side and CO on the legacy side.
Spirit has a chance to succeed...because they have a start on US in selling seats and then nickel and diming everyone. I said it before Skybus got started: The key on running this business plan like this is can you make your customers understand they are getting NOTHING more then a seat? Skybus, for all their work, could not make that clear enough to customers....and customers didn't care.
From a practical business point of view, there are two things US MUST do if it wishes to succeed at this plan:
1.) It MUST simplfy pricing into 3, max 4 buckets
2.) It MUST be transparent in it's approach: "We're charging you by weight....or by mile...." SOMEHOW, they must be able to explain to customers EXACTLY what they are and are not getting.
The current way it's done with US...where someone can literally get jammed into a $1,800 r/t CLT-MCI-CLT, be stuffed into an RJ and on top of it, be a CP and pay $2.00 for s soda or water....people, like me, will laugh and book elsewhere...."oh yeah, they charged me for a coke after I shelled out a grand to fly 800 miles."
If anyone on this board or any other board believes that will fly....then you undoubtedly believe in the tooth fairy.
I just dont understand why the FF club doesnt understand the word "survival"?
While I am definitely not a managment fan--way too vocal in my current spot LOL-I would give them a bit of credit for trying to avoid laying off masses of employees/cutting our benefits totally/trying to be creative--no matter how awful the ideas--in offsetting the loss from fuel costs.
This is only the beginning.....
While I am definitely not a managment fan--way too vocal in my current spot LOL-I would give them a bit of credit for trying to avoid laying off masses of employees/cutting our benefits totally/trying to be creative--no matter how awful the ideas--in offsetting the loss from fuel costs.
This is only the beginning.....
- Thread Starter
- #19
We do understand the word 'survival' very well. The problem is, management is pulling at straws, with no real long term plan.
If you look at the Air Canada plan, you know when you purchase the ticket you know what services you will be receiving and how many FF miles you will be getting etc.
The problem with this current plan the person who pays two, three, ten times as much for the ticket is receiving the same product/benefits as the person who purchase the loss leader fare.
That is what upsets me.
At the mens clothing store I frequent, when I buy a suit, I get tailoring included as well as other extras.
If I purchase on sale tailoring is extra. If it is a 20% off sale, I might have the tailoring waived because of being a good customer. At a 40% sale I get a Thank you for your business (and we needed the cash to get next seasons inventory)
If you are going to take away FF miles, take it off the cheap tickets as BBB proposed years ago, don't take it from people paying full fare.
If you look at the Air Canada plan, you know when you purchase the ticket you know what services you will be receiving and how many FF miles you will be getting etc.
The problem with this current plan the person who pays two, three, ten times as much for the ticket is receiving the same product/benefits as the person who purchase the loss leader fare.
That is what upsets me.
At the mens clothing store I frequent, when I buy a suit, I get tailoring included as well as other extras.
If I purchase on sale tailoring is extra. If it is a 20% off sale, I might have the tailoring waived because of being a good customer. At a 40% sale I get a Thank you for your business (and we needed the cash to get next seasons inventory)
If you are going to take away FF miles, take it off the cheap tickets as BBB proposed years ago, don't take it from people paying full fare.
vantheman63
Senior
Tea - Its not that we don't understand "survival," we do. Hell, I own my own business...two of them. BELIVE me, I understand just making payroll can create sleepless nights, often. So, it's not that we don't, or at least I don't, understand it.
And I respectfully DO NOT give them credit because, from my vantage point, they either didn't think this all the way through and were ridiculously reactive, or, they knew ALL along they were headed in this direction. (I think its the latter by the way.) Sure, they may come up with a few million slinging cokes....but are they going to come up with the hundreds of millions they need? ESPECIALLY when travel savvy consumers (business travelers like me) think, "holy smokes, I get NOTHING but the seat, I'll take ONLY the lowest priced seat, period. Anything else gets me ripped off!" And like I said, people like me frequently buy seats at the last second...do you think for a SECOND I'm going to spend $1,000 on US, sit in the back and have to pay for a coke....when I could pay $800 and fly WN?
I mean, HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD can that POSSIBLY make sense?
FF miles? Well, I've been on record saying, "we're buying transportation here folks! Not a FF program." But to gut it to the level they've gutted it? Yikes!
Like I said, it's not that we don't understand "survival"......WAIT!!!
It's that we do understand survival...and this is NOT the way you do it.
giantfan
Senior
- Apr 11, 2008
- 306
- 0
Just adding my 2 cents here....
I do agree with Van and Singleflyer in regard to paying full fare for tix and then getting nickel & dimed. They should NOT...they are our bread & butter. I would hope that Tempe would agree but know that implementation of not charging them for a coke could be a logistical nightmare.
Something like 20b your coke is 3 dollars but 20c your coke is free....I envision a nightmare for our F/A's...
Van--one point I don't agree with. You said yourself that you frequently buy tix at the last minute and would take WN for $800 over US for $1000, that would go without saying.
However, that maybe true if everything is equal but I feel that if most business travellers are booking last minute flights they are going to go with whoever has the best schedule, at the best time, with the best conx....regardless whether or not their coke is free.... You're pushing it on that one.
Also since WN still has no FC we will still be preferred over them (by a lot of folks anyway) when it comes to a savvy business traveller. If nothing else but for the bigger seats alone!
I do agree with Van and Singleflyer in regard to paying full fare for tix and then getting nickel & dimed. They should NOT...they are our bread & butter. I would hope that Tempe would agree but know that implementation of not charging them for a coke could be a logistical nightmare.
Something like 20b your coke is 3 dollars but 20c your coke is free....I envision a nightmare for our F/A's...
Van--one point I don't agree with. You said yourself that you frequently buy tix at the last minute and would take WN for $800 over US for $1000, that would go without saying.
However, that maybe true if everything is equal but I feel that if most business travellers are booking last minute flights they are going to go with whoever has the best schedule, at the best time, with the best conx....regardless whether or not their coke is free.... You're pushing it on that one.
Also since WN still has no FC we will still be preferred over them (by a lot of folks anyway) when it comes to a savvy business traveller. If nothing else but for the bigger seats alone!
- Thread Starter
- #23
Last minute purchasers don't get upgraded as upgrades are already filled.
Thank you for confiming that. I spent more time in the back in 2007 as a full fare CP than the 10 years prior. Again this is not added cost to change, just the priority of who will get that seat.
I do agree with Van and Singleflyer in regard to paying full fare for tix and then getting nickel & dimed. They should NOT...they are our bread & butter. I would hope that Tempe would agree but know that implementation of not charging them for a coke could be a logistical nightmare
If US had a good IT Dept it would be easy. When the BP is printed issue a coupon for a free coke. NW did this for full fare coach when BOB started. I agree it should not be the FA who determines who pays for what on board.
AC has a system for paying for the luggage at time of booking. However if you have more than you paid for they really get you at the airport. Again this is doneon the doftware level with minimal employee input.
Thank you for confiming that. I spent more time in the back in 2007 as a full fare CP than the 10 years prior. Again this is not added cost to change, just the priority of who will get that seat.
I do agree with Van and Singleflyer in regard to paying full fare for tix and then getting nickel & dimed. They should NOT...they are our bread & butter. I would hope that Tempe would agree but know that implementation of not charging them for a coke could be a logistical nightmare
If US had a good IT Dept it would be easy. When the BP is printed issue a coupon for a free coke. NW did this for full fare coach when BOB started. I agree it should not be the FA who determines who pays for what on board.
AC has a system for paying for the luggage at time of booking. However if you have more than you paid for they really get you at the airport. Again this is doneon the doftware level with minimal employee input.
In response to the following statement:
"Fees for calling a call center to book travel. US Airways received a lot of business from me in the past because I would call the CP line to book travel and then have my travel department pay the ticket, thus assuring me a ride on US Airways. Now adding a $15.00 fee for sending business 'your way'� won't happen, and I can't 'hold'a reservation via the web. Score NEGATIVE to US due to lost revenue. EVEN for me, I'll book another airline."
Even when the introduction of new fees June 12 CP do not pay a reservations service fee, even for booking travel for passengers other than themselves.
"Fees for calling a call center to book travel. US Airways received a lot of business from me in the past because I would call the CP line to book travel and then have my travel department pay the ticket, thus assuring me a ride on US Airways. Now adding a $15.00 fee for sending business 'your way'� won't happen, and I can't 'hold'a reservation via the web. Score NEGATIVE to US due to lost revenue. EVEN for me, I'll book another airline."
Even when the introduction of new fees June 12 CP do not pay a reservations service fee, even for booking travel for passengers other than themselves.
- Thread Starter
- #25
I have already cut my flying on USway back and am only a gold this year. Do they still pay a fee?
And part of the entire problem is you don't know what fee may apply to you in each situation. Because some apply to all and some not to elites.
And part of the entire problem is you don't know what fee may apply to you in each situation. Because some apply to all and some not to elites.
If thats the case its even sadder, because the appearence is that the policy has been slamed together with little thought.
So speaking of planning how are those Buy on Board credit card hand helds working
Bobbie
Senior
Mark my words on this...the next step is total elimination of First Class altogether. There's literally no need for an upper class product. Virtually no one is STUPID enough to pay money to sit in a filthy, disgusting US airways first class seat and not be able to open your laptop, get plastic cups, etc. It's not a premium product. It's like Greyhound offering a wider seat. It's insulting to air travel buyers to even attempt to even call their product First Class and try to charge for it. So, they should just eliminate it...it threatens all that revenue that the normals bring in, right. It's so laughable. They can put x number of coach seats in the place of 1 first class seat.
I give it 3 months before the first class seats start disappearing. And that goes for Envoy as well.
They'll realize quickly which side of the curtain was paying for the fuel.
SS255
Veteran
At this point, US would be far better off investing in a decent Y+ product, and doing away with the F cabin. The seats are too close together, there are not enough of them, and they are being sold for far more than anybody with any sense is willing to pay. They can be the TED of the *A. (I actually didn't mind TED in E+.)
vantheman63
Senior
I agree....just get rid of F and Envoy and move on....I'd SERIOUSLY doubt that many people, except maybe PHL based people traveling to the west coast, actually buy the product.
