Charlotte to Salt Lake City

[jimntx]

It's not worth arguing with you, WT. You are like the Virgin Mary...without sin or error. (At least, in your own mind.)

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's not worth arguing with you, WT. You are like the Virgin Mary...without sin or error. (At least, in your own mind.)

actually, all you need to do is know the facts about which you speak. If it's a factual item, there is a right or wrong answer. If it is an opinion, then you are free to believe what you want.
Your statement disputing my statement about the preference for passengers to arrive at ski destinations in the earlier part of the day can be demonstrated by fact.
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If you want to assert that YOU and YOUR FRIENDS don't want to get up early in order to arrive at a ski resort, then that is your opinion and I won't argue with that.
.
Let me remind you that you decided to turn this into a personal attack... all you had to do is disagree w/ my statement w/ your own personal opinion and that would have been the end of it.
I would also remind you that you and others have used this same strategy before with pretty much the same results. Stay away from personal attacks and understand the difference between facts and opinions and we'll get along just fine.


and gaucho,
DL has an 8.15 a.m. departure from ATL to SLC with an arrival at 10.33 with 6 additional flights later in the day about every 2 hours.
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I didn't say flights needed to arrive at the crack of dawn and most don't, either at SLC or DEN or the true ski destinations such as in Colorado. DL's arrival bank at SLC between 10 and 11 a.m. includes most of the cities from the eastern and midwest US. From the NE, the departures are closer to 7 a.m.

 

[strangiatotheme]

However, the route planning folks under Mr Nocella do a pretty darn good job. I can't think of ANY post merger routes they have dropped that were also started post merger. I'm sure they are there but I don't recall any.

PHL-BHX/OSL, CLT-HNL, and PHX-MBJ come to mind, but compared to all the others that have been added, I tend to agree with you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

PHL-BHX/OSL, CLT-HNL, and PHX-MBJ come to mind, but compared to all the others that have been added, I tend to agree with you.

Would it be safe to say they've picked far more winners then losers?

 

[strangiatotheme]

Would it be safe to say they've picked far more winners then losers?

Definitely. I'm interested to see how CLT-SLC works out, and (sorry to be so pessimistic, but...) how long PHX-LGA will last.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There are a couple of things to consider...

First, SLC and DIA are not the same for skiers. Arrive in DIA in mid-morning and you're 3-4 hours at least from the slopes at the major Colorado ski areas. So unless the slopes are lighted, like Keystone, the first day is a travel day and not a ski day for most people from the east coast. The same goes for the last day - pack, check out of accomodations, drive to DIA, return rental car, etc and the day is pretty much shot for skiing, even with a late departure (note that DIA isn't far enough from the east coast for true redeye flights).

SLC, on the other hand, is closer to the ski areas so it's possible to arrive in the evening, get to the slope, check in your accomodations and still get a good nights sleep before hitting the slops early the next morning. The first evening is a travel day, not most or all of it. Same with the redeye return - get at least a half day of skiing in before packing up and heading to the airport. Back east by at least 10:30 am or so the next day even with a connection. Only late afternoon/evening then overnight is a travel period.

Second, as someone already said, doing the evening out/redeye back results in mostly incremental cost for the flight. Incremental cost, at about half of normal CASM, can mean lower fares while still being profitable. A morning our/afternoon return means that the flight has to be fully costed, so fares have to be higher to break even/profit. Plus adding ASM's in what is largely an idle period for the plane brings the system average CASM down slightly - an added benefit. This was the whole idea behind the late connecting bank at LAS - fly airplanes when they'd otherwise be sitting and you lower CASM. The drop in traffic with the recession doomed most of those flights but I see that LAS traffic is recovering so wouldn't be surprised to see the late bank return within the next year or so.

Jim

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Too bad the eastbound is a redeye only, but this is a good start. It would be great to more flights from West cities ( such as OMA ) and East Coast hubs. SAT/ABQ too? The mainline metal freed up by the LAS pulldown needs to go someplace.

 

[strangiatotheme]

Second, as someone already said, doing the evening out/redeye back results in mostly incremental cost for the flight. Incremental cost, at about half of normal CASM, can mean lower fares while still being profitable. A morning our/afternoon return means that the flight has to be fully costed, so fares have to be higher to break even/profit. Plus adding ASM's in what is largely an idle period for the plane brings the system average CASM down slightly - an added benefit. This was the whole idea behind the late connecting bank at LAS - fly airplanes when they'd otherwise be sitting and you lower CASM. The drop in traffic with the recession doomed most of those flights but I see that LAS traffic is recovering so wouldn't be surprised to see the late bank return within the next year or so.

Jim

Thanks for the explanation, Jim. With the pulldown of LAS, I guess they figured this was worth a shot with relatively little risk involved by the way they scheduled it. However, I think the current state of LAS (for US anyway) is here to stay. Most of the utilization flying that was accomplished there - the redeye bank - has been replicated PHX with the "flex" scheduling, with the benefit of also being able to consolidate operations into one hub instead of two.

Hopefully once US establishes itself in the market, they can add a daytime flight pair in the near future.

 

[cltflyer1]

Definitely. I'm interested to see how CLT-SLC works out, and (sorry to be so pessimistic, but...) how long PHX-LGA will last.

Another route or 2 to be noted that didn't work out was clt-tus. which i think could be started again. It seemed to be full most days but i guess yields were bad.

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Another route or 2 to be noted that didn't work out was clt-tus. which i think could be started again. It seemed to be full most days but i guess yields were bad.

Didn't jetBlue also pull its TUS service?

 

[robbedagain]

320 is on CLT SLC and rather using a 319 from LGA-PHX i would ve thought maybe a 757 or atleast a 321 from LGA to PHX would ve been the choice butnot 100% sure if the 321 can do the LGA-PHX nonstop wouldnt that be stretching it even with the aux fuel tank in it?

 

[BoeingBoy]

My guess is that the 321 can hold enough fuel, but not take off with enough from LGA's relatively short runways. Don't know if the new ones have more thrust or not though. I think the 321's do some transcons from CLT/PHL where there's longer runways.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

My guess is that the 321 can hold enough fuel, but not take off with enough from LGA's relatively short runways. Don't know if the new ones have more thrust or not though. I think the 321's do some transcons from CLT/PHL where there's longer runways.

Jim

You are correct, it would be a weight issue, not fuel. I've actually had more fuel issues with the 320 than the 321, mainly due to max. landing weight.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Delta has now loaded a day time CLT-SLC flight. 7.45 a.m dept from CLT, 5 pm from SLC. A320.

 

[zethya]

Delta has now loaded a day time CLT-SLC flight. 7.45 a.m dept from CLT, 5 pm from SLC. A320.

No surprise there! This is an example of how proactively protective DL is of their turf. On the other hand, US just sits idle and lets DL have the entire PHL-SLC-PHL market, which is more than twice the size of total boardings and 3+ times the O&D boardings of CLT. What a fantastic route planning group.