Clock Clicking Guy Meek Still Deciding?

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Jan 20, 2003
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With the clock ticking, PFAA President Guy Meek got this offer on October 15, yet no response not even a word to his own members!



Guy Meek, President
Professional Flight Attendants Association
8101 34th Avenue South Suite 250
Bloomington, MN 55452

Via Facsimile and US Mail

Dear Guy,

The intentions of AFA-CWA have always been with the best interests of the Northwest flight attendants and that of all flight attendants uppermost in our hearts and minds.
I do not believe you can disagree that I, more than any other union leader, understands what it means to lead flight attendants through the bankruptcy process. AFA has more experience with this than we would have ever wished to endure. But the proposal that Northwest management has put on the table has implications far beyond Northwest Airlines. One thing we have learned during this financial crisis in our industry is that proposals like this spread from carrier to carrier like the most virulent disease mankind has ever experienced. Understandably, we are very worried that Northwest management will succeed in starting this pandemic by creating a non-union flight attendant workforce for all flying outside the forty eight contiguous United States.

My knowledge of this alarming proposal coincided with the decision of the IBT to disaffiliate with the AFL-CIO thus leaving the way clear for the first time, to join our two unions for the benefit of all flight attendants. Those overtures from AFA were not accepted by PFAA, so when another option presented itself we eagerly accepted. We accepted because, quite frankly, we are concerned that your fledgling union has neither the resources nor the access to the needed expertise to fend off this proposal. This should not be taken as a criticism of either PFAA or your leadership. PFAA had the misfortune to be born into the most devastating economic crisis of our industry either of us has ever seen. Had your organization had the luxury of time to develop and stabilize I have no doubt under your leadership PFAA would have been able to successfully meet this challenge. An unfortunate accident of timing has prevented that.

I continue to believe this is the ideal time for Northwest flight attendants to be brought under the protective umbrella of AFA-CWA. The paramount issue today is the defense of, first the Northwest flight attendants' careers and then those of the tens of thousands of other flight attendants in this country.

Therefore, I am today making an offer in defense of our profession and our careers. AFA-CWA, with the full concurrence of the CWA leadership, is willing to make available to PFAA, at no cost and with no strings attached, all of the resources and bankruptcy experience of our legal counsel, both internal and external, as well as that of our collective bargaining staff, research, legislative and communications staff. We are making this offer in the interests of preventing this devastating attack on your members' jobs.

It will remain my hope and belief that through this bankruptcy process we will have forged a strong enough relationship and demonstrated sufficiently the value of our resources and expertise to make further discussions of a merger between our two unions possible. We would have only one expectation and one motivation ヨ to protect our chosen profession. However, you should know that in the meantime, it is fully our intention to continue to seek representation of the Northwest flight attendants through the NMB election process.

Guy, the threat Northwest flight attendants face is also a threat to every flight attendant in this country. We have all worked too hard for too many years to make the position of flight attendant a recognized and viable career. To allow our profession to be destroyed without putting all of our resources behind an effort to preserve what we have accomplished would be unconscionable and unethical. Please, in the interest of your members and every flight attendant in this country, let us help in this fight.

In hoped for solidarity,

Patricia Friend
 
A letter of support from the AFA? Is this the same AFA that had a candle light protest in front of the white house, then accepted more concessions from US AIR and United? When is AFA gonna do their CHAOS at United or US AIR? They've only been threatening CHAOS for months now and AFA hasn't done anything. ALL TALK and NO ACTION. TWU and AFA just want that dues money and that's all.
 
A letter of support from the AFA? Is this the same AFA that had a candle light protest in front of the white house, then accepted more concessions from US AIR and United? When is AFA gonna do their CHAOS at United or US AIR? They've only been threatening CHAOS for months now and AFA hasn't done anything. ALL TALK and NO ACTION. TWU and AFA just want that dues money and that's all.


PK
That is soooo unfair!! In the case of US Airways, our membership...infact our entire company...had a gun held to their head. It was called Chapter 7 liquidation. What do you do with THAT? Play Norma Rae? NOBODY that I knew of, including myself, was willing to take a chance in 28,000 folks going to the unemployment line had that gun been loaded.

If PFAA wants our assistance, fine...but I do NOT want an aggressive recruitment campaign to bring them into our fold if that isn't what they want. We spent MILLIONS to bring Delta f/as onboard to no avail. No more.

BTW, PK, are you a US Airways f/a? If so, AFA just saved your butt from an attempt to screw with your DOH, so your $39 a month was well worth the money spent. ;)
 
Princess a flight attendant at US? :D

Nope. Princess is a mechanic at American.
 
Princess a flight attendant at US? :D

Nope. Princess is a mechanic at American.
Are you sure about that? I thought she was a stock clerk.

Not sure what to think of the AFA offer but the CWA has a good reputation as a real union, why not see exactly what they have to offer? Its my understanding that the NWA FAs wanted to go to either the AFA or the APFA but neither union was interested. The AFA because of AFL-CIO affiliation with the IBT at the time (they werent shy about putting political interests ahead of flight attendants interests then) and the APFA because they are a company union and are only interested in American Airlines. So with no other options they formed the PFAA. Well why not see what they have to offer?
 
PK
That is soooo unfair!! In the case of US Airways, our membership...infact our entire company...had a gun held to their head. It was called Chapter 7 liquidation. What do you do with THAT? Play Norma Rae? NOBODY that I knew of, including myself, was willing to take a chance in 28,000 folks going to the unemployment line had that gun been loaded.

If PFAA wants our assistance, fine...but I do NOT want an aggressive recruitment campaign to bring them into our fold if that isn't what they want. We spent MILLIONS to bring Delta f/as onboard to no avail. No more.

BTW, PK, are you a US Airways f/a? If so, AFA just saved your butt from an attempt to screw with your DOH, so your $39 a month was well worth the money spent. ;)

Its not unfair. The fact is the unions let us down. They should have stood together and told the industry and the government that interference in our contracts through the courts would be considered an attack on all workers in the industry and that we would make a political protest against that interference in the form of a General Strike.

If all the unions can do is stand by and allow these companies to strip us of everything we worked for then the fact is we dont need unions. Save jobs? Give me a break, what was GE going to do with all those airplanes if USAIR went C-7? The fact is they got what they wanted-our labor at discounted rates.
 
I am so sick and tired of airline employees saying "We had a gun to our head,BOO HOO HOO,We had to vote yes,BOO HOO HOO". This is nothing but a lousy excuse for being a bunch of COWARDS. The YES voters didn't want to fight for anything and now this industry has been allowed to be "WALMARTED". I ask this,yes voters: How low are you willing to go? If you think the concessions are over, THINK AGAIN! One thing about the AMFA mechanics at Northwest. They fought the good fight and they didn't surrender. They at least tried to do something to stop the madness that is sweeping this god forsaken industry. AMFA mechanics might have lost their "jobs", but they knew there is a much better life outside of the airline industry. I too have determined that this industry has absolutely NO FUTURE and I will soon be leaving for greener pastures also. It's time for all that are able to pull the ejection handle on this "career".
 
I am so sick and tired of airline employees saying "We had a gun to our head,BOO HOO HOO,We had to vote yes,BOO HOO HOO". This is nothing but a lousy excuse for being a bunch of COWARDS. The YES voters didn't want to fight for anything and now this industry has been allowed to be "WALMARTED". I ask this,yes voters: How low are you willing to go? If you think the concessions are over, THINK AGAIN! One thing about the AMFA mechanics at Northwest. They fought the good fight and they didn't surrender. They at least tried to do something to stop the madness that is sweeping this god forsaken industry. AMFA mechanics might have lost their "jobs", but they knew there is a much better life outside of the airline industry. I too have determined that this industry has absolutely NO FUTURE and I will soon be leaving for greener pastures also. It's time for all that are able to pull the ejection handle on this "career".


And where has that good fight gotten them? Hum? Pride? Sleep at night? A raise? Job preservation? NO, outsourcing, permanent replacement workers, larger paycuts, larger benefit cuts, extreme downsizing of fleet meaning layoffs, and nullifying of contracts. Oh yes, that taking a stand strike has served the world well.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You see, I am not crying. This industry and her union groups have never understood that the low profit margine of the airline industry could not support the outrageous contracts that many of us had in the past. US Airways is a prime example. As far a US was concerned, we all knew the rest of the industry was hoping for us to go away, so perhaps we were different. We knew we wouldn't be missed and the nail was in the coffin.

As far as a union, overall, they are now worthless and would be just fine if they all left the industry. There are now enough laws prohibiting discrimination and I just feel the fear of the "old days" of pre Norma Rae are overstated.

And Princess, my vote to say yes or no to concessions in not all about ME, but the other 30,000 coworkers. I would rather vote yes and be considered a coward and see the preservation of as many jobs as possible than vote no for the "cause" (whatever that is) and be a self centered SOB.

So you have your philosophy and I have mine. Ain't life grand?
 
And where has that good fight gotten them? Hum? Pride? Sleep at night? A raise? Job preservation? NO, outsourcing, permanent replacement workers, larger paycuts, larger benefit cuts, extreme downsizing of fleet meaning layoffs, and nullifying of contracts. Oh yes, that taking a stand strike has served the world well.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

You see, I am not crying. This industry and her union groups have never understood that the low profit margine of the airline industry could not support the outrageous contracts that many of us had in the past. US Airways is a prime example. As far a US was concerned, we all knew the rest of the industry was hoping for us to go away, so perhaps we were different. We knew we wouldn't be missed and the nail was in the coffin.

As far as a union, overall, they are now worthless and would be just fine if they all left the industry. There are now enough laws prohibiting discrimination and I just feel the fear of the "old days" of pre Norma Rae are overstated.

And Princess, my vote to say yes or no to concessions in not all about ME, but the other 30,000 coworkers. I would rather vote yes and be considered a coward and see the preservation of as many jobs as possible than vote no for the "cause" (whatever that is) and be a self centered SOB.

So you have your philosophy and I have mine. Ain't life grand?

Just admit it, you are a coward. Maybe what this industry cant afford is fragile shellaqed cardboard panels in the cargo compartments at over $400 a pop, or $500 toilet seats, $250,000 computers that have less power than a $200 Ipod or outrageous lease rates for aircraft and facilities. But as long as this industry is filled with cowards such as youself who are willing to work holidays weekends, shifts at a discount rate to "save" your company even though you dont own it and it would cast you away like yesterdays trash at the first opportunity all those other parties keep raking in the bucks. Preservation of jobs? What do you think would have happened if we all simply said NO? Do you think they would have parked all those plnes in the desert and told everyone to drive or swim?
 
What makes you think USAIRWAYS will survive? I give USAIR about one year and they will be back in bankruptcy claiming that their labor costs are too high again. So, if everyone still has a job at $5.00 hr thats good? How low are you willing to go,First Amendment? What will be the next airline crisis? Bird Flu? Missle attacks? Fuel prices? This is the only industry in the world that passes its costs on the employees instead of the consumer. Get your employees for nothing and your labor for free. Don't you just love the airline industry?
 
What makes you think USAIRWAYS will survive? I give USAIR about one year and they will be back in bankruptcy claiming that their labor costs are too high again. So, if everyone still has a job at $5.00 hr thats good? How low are you willing to go,First Amendment? What will be the next airline crisis? Bird Flu? Missle attacks? Fuel prices? This is the only industry in the world that passes its costs on the employees instead of the consumer. Get your employees for nothing and your labor for free. Don't you just love the airline industry?


You speak many truths. The difference here is there is new management involved now and I choose to give this team a chance. They have done well with AWA and they have already made positive changes in less than a month.

I disagree with your statement that USAIR ( I believe it has been US Airways now for 8 years) will be back in Chapter 11 or ask for more. Will I go any lower? NO. Will management ask for more. I don't think so. I really don't.

You see, we at US are trying to change with the industry. It has taken us a long time to understand that need. Apparently, Wall Street believes in US as the stock is up and all the new investors took their options to buy more stock at $15 a share. Stock is at $22. Raised $850, 000,000 on that alone. Total of $2.5 Billion cash in the bank.

Why is it so difficult for you to be one bit positive. SWA is to blame for the Walmartizing of this industry, not the legacies...but it has made them a profit, which I can't say for all the others. AND, that is what America wants...so change or go down..or get out.
 
Just admit it, you are a coward. Maybe what this industry cant afford is fragile shellaqed cardboard panels in the cargo compartments at over $400 a pop, or $500 toilet seats, $250,000 computers that have less power than a $200 Ipod or outrageous lease rates for aircraft and facilities. But as long as this industry is filled with cowards such as youself who are willing to work holidays weekends, shifts at a discount rate to "save" your company even though you dont own it and it would cast you away like yesterdays trash at the first opportunity all those other parties keep raking in the bucks. Preservation of jobs? What do you think would have happened if we all simply said NO? Do you think they would have parked all those plnes in the desert and told everyone to drive or swim?


Hey BOB

I don't own the company I work for and they owe me NOTHING!! I still make a hell of a lot of money....MUCH more than any Walmart employee I know. You see, people like you are why the public hates airline workers and have no sympathy for them. Yours is the typical entitled me,me,me mentality of soooo many airline workers, especially union workers. Your company owes you nothing, the USA owes you nothing, and the world owes you NOTHING. Its amazing how quickly you turn into a childish name calling baffoon when someone speaks against your belief or opinion. Perhaps you can step out of your bubble and see that not everyone sees the world as you and that perhaps your way of dealing with work and/or life just might come across as cowardly to others.
 
Oh that "evil" SWA why won't they just go away. I mean look at them. How dare they pay their employees soo much! They should have to work at slave wages like us! Health care or a retirement plan who needs that anyway. SWA is the "GREAT SATAN". It's not fair that they kept their fuel hedges at $26 a barrel. They should be forced to pay what we pay for gas. Our executives,all 500 of them, needed the cash from those hedges to pay for their much deserved retension bonuses. SWA has the worst management you know. SWA management is sooo bad that they have made a profit almost every year of their existence. This is absolutely unacceptable. How can any airline make money out of bankruptcy?

Is this positive enough for you, First Amendment?
 
Hey BOB

I don't own the company I work for and they owe me NOTHING!! I still make a hell of a lot of money....MUCH more than any Walmart employee I know. You see, people like you are why the public hates airline workers and have no sympathy for them. Yours is the typical entitled me,me,me mentality of soooo many airline workers, especially union workers. Your company owes you nothing, the USA owes you nothing, and the world owes you NOTHING. Its amazing how quickly you turn into a childish name calling baffoon when someone speaks against your belief or opinion. Perhaps you can step out of your bubble and see that not everyone sees the world as you and that perhaps your way of dealing with work and/or life just might come across as cowardly to others.
WOW you make more money than a walmart greeter, how fortunate for you and the rest of the airline industry. :huh:
 

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