Dave is showing his colors isn''t he? a question to ponder

Chip Munn,
"...I believe without voluntary restructuring accords, the only question is not will the cuts occur, but will the court order deeper cuts and agree with the company's motion to fine the unions, which are made up of its members.

In addition, union members will not be permitted to vote on a court-imposed vote. It's take it or leave it because with no deal that meets the DIP financing, there is no company..."

Again, it appears that FUD(Fear Uncertainty & Doubt) is being spread by a member of one labor group in an attempt to influence the actions of another labor group.

Mr. Munn has not answered the questions from the first page of this thread relating to any court cases which would fit the current circumstances: A Union member whose compulsory membership in said Union results in the subrogation of fines levied against the Union to the individual members based on the "memberships'" refusal to vacate their LMRDA Rights.

Viewed from another angle: how could a Court levy this speculative fine against Union Memebers that Voted FOR Concessions? How would the court know who they are? Is the Fact that they maintained membership in the Union appropriate justification for the levy though such action would run contrary to the legislative aims and purposes of other significant legislation? Never mind that such membership is required as a term of employment and that the voting was conducted without identification as to the manner in which an individual cast their vote.

Secondly, though there is no vote with respect to the Judges decision; there is a blancing of the potential harms with respect to the Company obtaining financing and the Union potentially walking off the job and the Company shutting down.

The terms of the DIP financing were negotiated, and could be re-negotiated, just as the Company previously stated that the concession packages were non-negotiable but now have stated that they wish to arrive at a negotiated settlement prior to the 10th. No one can know how a judge will come down prior to argument being made.

Mechanics live with their decisions. If you are willing to fly aircraft they maintain based on their ability, why don't you trust them now: why the hard sell? Could it be that if you were in their position you might make a decision as Chip the Mechanic that scares the pooh out of Chip the Pilot?
 
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On 9/2/2002 9:47:14 AM

While ALPA is giving productivity tips to agents, might I suggest a few for ALPA?

1.Taxi in at a normal rate of speed, not like you're conning the Battleship North Carolina into berth.

2.Quit 'kicking the brakes off' while you're still chocked up and the jetway is on the a/c. I've got 'out' times for flights that are five minutes PRIOR to commencing pushback. BTW, it's unsafe and hazardous to the ramp rats.

3.The company directive says shut down the APU and use ground power/air. Why doncha?


Now it's just one man's opinion, but items 1 and 2 wouldn't have anything to do with increasing flight time (and pay) would it? And 3 wouldn't have to do with proving to the company you can increase it's costs at will, would it?
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This post just illustrates how ignorant some are of other's jobs. You stick to selling tickets (or whatever YOU do) and let the pilots stick to operating the aircraft.
 
Boomer:

With all due respect, it appears you do not agree with your own unions legal and financial advisors per the the IAM's website at www.iam141.org. Could you explain to us how you seem to know more about the process than your attorneys and financial experts?

Argento, with your legal experience as an attorney and finacial background, would you care to comment on Bommer's post?

Thanks.

Chip
 
Navy,

The micro-issue point is fair enough,so I will cease and desist. I'm glad you've enjoyed my stuff in the past, and hope you continue to do so.

Oldie,

Which way is it? You've freely offered your advise to other work groups. I am simply reporting what I have seen. As far as motivations, those ideas did not originate with me - they originated with ALPA guys holding court in the crew room, including a former MEC member.

As far as ignorance, I am not ignorant enough to believe my station in life determines my character or IQ.
 
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On 8/31/2002 10:46:43 PM

Joesy:

Dave told all employee groups that he would seek deeper cuts for any union who did not ratify a restructuring agreement.
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I guess the key word here is ratify. How can CWA ratify something that does not exist?

I am not disagreeing with any posters here but.....This does not seem right. If we never get a tentative agreement I will get a bigger paycut because I did not vote yes on the agreement that was never given to me to vote on? That's the typical backwards logic this company seems to thrive off of.[:knockout:]
 
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On 9/4/2002 8:01:06 AM
Viewed from another angle: how could a Court levy this speculative fine against Union Memebers that Voted FOR Concessions? How would the court know who they are? Is the Fact that they maintained membership in the Union appropriate justification for the levy though such action would run contrary to the legislative aims and purposes of other significant legislation? Never mind that such membership is required as a term of employment and that the voting was conducted without identification as to the manner in which an individual cast their vote.

That's why the call it COLLECTIVE bargaining. You can thank the IAM. If you want individual rights, feel free to accept "at-will" employment in a "right to work" state. Can't have it both ways.
 
Mr. Munn/ClueByFour,

I'm not against collective bargaining, I believe that unions are necessary in this industry and I actively participate in mine. But I do not blindly follow anyone. I do not believe that a court will place fines against a Union because the members refused to vote themselves a paycut. I also do not believe that any speculative fine could then be transferred to the members for legally expressing themselves through democratic participation in a matter properly before the body.

I would still like to see legal precendent that meets these facts. If possible, please include links so that everyone can follow along.
 
Boomer:

The company filed a motion in court to seek damages asking the IAM be ordered to reimburse US Airways for what the company called the "economic detriment of the bankruptcy."

Specifically, on August 31 the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette wrote, US Airways had originally asked the unionized mechanics to accept a 6.8 percent wage cut, retroactive to July 1, with modest increases beginning in 2004. But if the two sides can't agree on concessions, the airline has indicated it will seek an 8.4 percent wage reduction effective July 1, according to court documents. The airline also indicated it will ask that the union be assessed $5.1 million a month for six months to reimburse US Airways for "economic detriment of the bankruptcy."

Boomer, the issue is the company has filed court documents seeking a larger IAM-M pay cut and for the union to pay damages for again what the airline called the "economic detriment of the bankruptcy."

A union is a collection of workers funded by the membership. If the court rules in favor of the company the IAM will be required by law to pay the $30.6 million the company is seeking in damages. If the union does not have the funds, the members who make up the union will be responsible for the payment.

By the way, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette also wrote, if the two fail to agree on voluntary concessions, the airline wants the CWA assessed $2.4 million a month for six months.

Regardless of whether or not you, I or anybody else believe the court may or may not rule on this motion, the fact is the IAM attorney's will have to defend you and your colleagues against this claim. Moreover, in any legal proceeding there is an element of uncertainty and nobody knows how the judge will rule, but if the court agrees the mechanics could be liable for a huge amount of money.

I believe some of us believe the restructuring negotiations are normal RLA collective bargaining, but they are not. The talks are bankruptcy negotiations where all bets are off and the judge will make the final ruling. Who knows how he will rule.

Chip
 
That should not be a problem, the judge can just make the retro give back effective lets say July 1st 1995? That should cover the lawsuit. And maybe we can bill the retired IAM employees who were then with the company