Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Oh, clarity. Thank goodness. Fianally.

So since the Nic will become effective with the new TA, (since old TA or new TA doesn't make any difference, ie it was never a TA that protected your right to the Nic, you just deserve it.)

Ya' gotta' love the "logic" of it: Metroyet "This TA...That TA... you see. It doesn't matter....."...? Sigh...debating cultists is futility incarnate. The only hope is for some caring soul to eventually have them deprogrammed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y01tRycZQoU

 

[EastUS1]

"The only hope is for some caring soul to eventually have them deprogrammed." That wasn't intended as any serious slight towards the Krishnas, since they seem to be more or less enjoying themselves, and not harming anyone in the process...nor seeking any personal gains at the expense of others. Any even seemingly implied similarities in that regard to the west's deeply spiritual "spartans", "knights" and "dire wolves" was entirely unintended.

 

[prechilill]

Oh, clarity. Thank goodness. Fianally.

So since the Nic will become effective with the new TA, (since old TA or new TA doesn't make any difference, ie it was never a TA that protected your right to the Nic, you just deserve it.)

Can you please inform us of how much money you will be awarded in damages for not having the Nic all these years? Is it more than the $100K that each APA pilot will be getting?

Scott, the MOU modifies selected sections of our existing TA, not the whole thing, our east/west SLI isn't one of them. That's done, all we are waiting on is a JCBA, the APA is about to deliver that in about a year. Lay off the drugs for a while, you will understand this simple stuff better.

 

[prechilill]

They don't believe they will have no effect on the merger outcome. As such they think they can use leverage (they don't have) to get what is in their minds owed to them. They thought DOH would give them back the positions they lost in bankruptcy and now they seem to think they can recoup lost wages etc. I think some of the east pilots are ready to move forward, others are angry and stuck in the past. I hope the east votes to move forward, but if past performance is any indication they may choose to stay on LOA93 a bit longer. It is their choice, thankfully PHX is nice and our contract isn't toooo bad.

AVL is Asheville, isn't it? I've read it's a great place.

Bean

Agree, the east radicals are a predictable "shoot yourself in the foot" no vote, but they are a minority now. APA is driving this thing and if you notice not a single east lunatic on here ever recognized this from Hummel's video. Yep, as predicted the stupidity is still ingrained deep inside and the hallucinations about a 3-way are all that's keeping them alive. (What happened to DOH?)
The Hummel video says a lot without saying a lot.
JCBA in a year, this thing is finished.

 

[prechilill]

Great. Voting advice from someone that is not a pilot, an employee or member of usapa.

Thanks, I think we got this.

No kidding! Lol
The east is so desperate, inventing fictional reason is easy for them.

 

[cleardirect]

Ya' gotta' love the "logic" of it: Metroyet "This TA...That TA... you see. It doesn't matter....."...? Sigh...debating cultists is futility incarnate. The only hope is for some caring soul to eventually have them deprogrammed.

Yes DOH cultist have been difficult to work with. But the west has been kind and trying to reprogram you. Sadly it has not worked so far.

But soon the APA will use a different method on you.

Acceptance is just a short time away.

 

[EastUS1]

Agree, the east radicals are a predictable "shoot yourself in the foot" no vote, but they are a minority now.

I can't speak for any other "radicals" and without seeing what's contained in the proposal; I've no idea yet as to which vote, yea or nay, will be appropriate, but I must ask (mostly for the sake of honest, if admittedly morbid and clinically fascinated curiosity here): Are you truly so incredibly stupid that you've already decided which way to vote, before even knowing the full details of the proposal?...Seriously? I'd previously given you a bit more credit than that.

 

[pilot]

There are hundreds of guys who have already decided.
Maybe thousands.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Au contraire mon frere. Parker cares about the liability that is attached to the Nic. He's good at getting around things though. Having the seniority go to a second arbitration could take that liability off the company.

Bean

Yes, he is. He said so. He said that he is legally bound to negotiate with USAPA, not AOL or the westies. He knows where the liabilities are. The Nic is STILL dead.
Count on it.

 

[EastUS1]

"Are you truly so incredibly stupid that you've already decided which way to vote, before even knowing the full details of the proposal?"

There are hundreds of guys who have already decided.
Maybe thousands.

The same reasonable question applies to any and all who'd cheerfully and childishly set their future course based purely on "hope" or visceral responses of any kind.....versus any/all reason and logic. Without yet knowing all that's contained, and sans any full and proper consideration after getting that info; I've honestly no idea what vote's appropriate here for myself or certainly any others, but any who've pre-determined otherwise, without having the reasonably needed information first, are necessarily, utter and complete fools....period! There's just no kind way to state it any differently.

 

[pilot]

American Airlines and US Airways, with participation of committee counsel for the Unsecured Creditors Committee, are pleased that they have completed discussions with the Allied Pilots Association and US Airline Pilots Association intended to develop a framework for the terms of employment for pilots, as well as a process for pilot integration, in the event of a merger between AA and US during restructuring. This memorandum of understanding was approved by the Allied Pilots Association's Board of Directors and by USAPA's Board of Pilot Representatives. This memorandum of understanding will assist all of the stakeholders, including the Boards of AMR and US Airways, in making an informed decision as to whether a merger should ultimately be pursued. The MOU is one of several elements to be considered before a decision on a merger can be made. Details regarding the MOU are still covered by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement so they cannot be further disclosed at this time.

"A process for pilot integration"

That process is defined in the MOU. If anyone thinks it involves NIC they simply don't get it.
Three lists will turn into one. East, West, and APA.

 

[cleardirect]

American Airlines and US Airways, with participation of committee counsel for the Unsecured Creditors Committee, are pleased that they have completed discussions with the Allied Pilots Association and US Airline Pilots Association intended to develop a framework for the terms of employment for pilots, as well as a process for pilot integration, in the event of a merger between AA and US during restructuring. This memorandum of understanding was approved by the Allied Pilots Association's Board of Directors and by USAPA's Board of Pilot Representatives. This memorandum of understanding will assist all of the stakeholders, including the Boards of AMR and US Airways, in making an informed decision as to whether a merger should ultimately be pursued. The MOU is one of several elements to be considered before a decision on a merger can be made. Details regarding the MOU are still covered by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement so they cannot be further disclosed at this time.

"A process for pilot integration"

That process is defined in the MOU. If anyone thinks it involves NIC they simply don't get it.
Three lists will turn into one. East, West, and APA.

Correction. Three contracts will turn into one. Two lists will turn into one.


Question? Usapa has the rot to negotiate for scheduling methods (line vs. PBS) what do you think is going to be the method? Did usapa get to negotiate that or was it dictated by the company and APA?

Usapa has the right to negotiated pay rates. Do you think usapa is going to negotiate a different pay rate than APA has now or is the company and APA going to dictate those rates?

Now what do you think is going to happen during arbitration when the APA is our bargaining agent and usapa is nothing but a distant nightmare?

It will be up to the arbitrator what list is used and what question is answered.

Usapa may have the right but they don't have the ability to negotiate anything other than the Nicolau. In order to negotiate you have to have another party willing to talk to you. The company and the APA are not willing to negotiate a three way.

Get used to that idea. Otherwise it is going to be another disappointing decade for you.

 

[pilot]

Yep, you got it exactly right.
That's exactly what the process for integration states in the mou.
Looks like the east is really screwed.
No doubt about it.

 

[nevergiveup]

Correction. Three contracts will turn into one. Two lists will turn into one.


Question? Usapa has the rot to negotiate for scheduling methods (line vs. PBS) what do you think is going to be the method? Did usapa get to negotiate that or was it dictated by the company and APA?

Usapa has the right to negotiated pay rates. Do you think usapa is going to negotiate a different pay rate than APA has now or is the company and APA going to dictate those rates?

Now what do you think is going to happen during arbitration when the APA is our bargaining agent and usapa is nothing but a distant nightmare?

It will be up to the arbitrator what list is used and what question is answered.

Usapa may have the right but they don't have the ability to negotiate anything other than the Nicolau. In order to negotiate you have to have another party willing to talk to you. The company and the APA are not willing to negotiate a three way.

Get used to that idea. Otherwise it is going to be another disappointing decade for you.

So what di Mr. Parker mean in the crew news video when he said it would be a 3 way?

 

[Portly Dorman]

I can't speak for any other "radicals" and without seeing what's contained in the proposal; I've no idea yet as to which vote, yea or nay, will be appropriate, but I must ask (mostly for the sake of honest, if admittedly morbid and clinically fascinated curiosity here): Are you truly so incredibly stupid that you've already decided which way to vote, before even knowing the full details of the proposal?...Seriously? I'd previously given you a bit more credit than that.

It's just nice to be able to vote on something. For a 'union' that's for the pilots what have we as pilots voted on?

PD