Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

what concerns me is the pay rate and still only 40M payout....
it will work out to about 2000 extra per month. before taxes.. not enough.. just sayin

25.4% payraise at Date of Signing for East Group 2 (320/737) F/O, 26.0% for Captain.

 

[dca319]

The JCBA will be done and voted on before we see what lost will be used. That right there tells me it'll be two lists - Nicolau and the APA. And since USAPA can't hold the contract hostage, the three arb panel will make a decision and we're done. Notice there is no distinction between east and west but merely USAPA pilots. If anyone thinks DOH or a three way is possible, you're nuts.

 

[dca319]

I'm pulling for more like 2018, at which point it won't matter to me at all!


seajay

There's a timeline now. It won't go past 2015

 

[traderjake]

I'm having a problem finding the heroics of the CLT Reps in the MOU.

Can you help me out luvthe9?

 

[dca319]

I'm having a problem finding the heroics of the CLT Reps (luvthe9 claims) in the MOU.

Was anyone really expecting any heroics from CLT? It's been nothing but a comedy so far and that big hook is coming out from stage right.

 

[dca319]

I will post a link to an article about america west pilots being scabs, drug runners, id thieves, and scabs each time you post. Your turn next, scab.

http://scabsr.us/duw1.htm

http://scabsr.us/duw1.htm

No one cares Claxon. You're doing a great job as board jester and embarrassing the rest of us. I find it hard to believe you're a lawyer as you claim to be.

 

[767jetz]

Thanks. They couldn't just say that in the e-mail?

Understand your concern about pay, but...........if the APA votes yes and USAPA votes no, what do you think will happen? Most likely the merger will proceed, the only difference being you'll get to enjoy LOA93 a bit longer.

Bean

This is the same debate that occurred among the UAL and CAL pilots from the day the Tentative Agreement came out until the JCBA was ratified. There was a heated debate between the for and against crowds on both sides. Some thought holding out for a better contract was the way to go. They thought the JCBA was just not enough and were willing to forgo a significant raise now for hopes that a better contract was only 6 to 12 months away. The "no voters" were certainly the most vocal and frankly the most confrontational group. In the end it passed by 67% of the combined group. the math worked out that no matter how the break down of votes fell on the UAL and CAL side, a majority of both groups realized that waiting indefinitely for a better deal was futile. There was no way we were going to get so much more that it would negate the millions of dollars we lose every month of not having a contract. It is the time value of money.

After a quick glance at the details posted above, I see no reference to a three way SLI or splitting off the PHX hub. I do see a reference to fences, which may appease some of the more senior East pilots. TWA pilots were able to keep their seniority as long as they stayed in STL, for example. I also see a huge pay raise for east 320 f/o's that would basically bring them up to LOA93 captain rates. Sounds like single carrier status and single representation (presumably APA) will be on the fast track, meaning USAPA will have limited say in the JCBA negotiations. Also sounds like this MOU constitutes an new agreement for all US pilots, which IMPLIES the final step in implementing the Nic. That remains ot be seen, but i see little room for anyone to interpret or claim otherwise.

As a side note, I spoke with one of UA's merger committee members a few days ago. Our SLI will be done possibly by April but more likely end of July. Will be interesting to see what the arbitrators decide. Might have a bearing on your eventual SLI with the APA.

 

[JoeLurker]

'During the McCaskill-Bond process, including any arbitration proceeding, US Airways,
American or New American Airlines, or their successors (if any), shall remain neutral regarding the order in which pilots are placed on the integrated seniority list,'

No NIC........sorry guys. USAPA will be presenting the list to use, not the company.

 

[cleardirect]

'During the McCaskill-Bond process, including any arbitration proceeding, US Airways,
American or New American Airlines, or their successors (if any), shall remain neutral regarding the order in which pilots are placed on the integrated seniority list,'

No NIC........sorry guys. USAPA will be presenting the list to use, not the company.

Read the MOU closer. No seniority until the JCBA is done. usapa will be gone before we get to seniority. usapa will not be presenting anything.

 

[nevergiveup]

The JCBA will be done and voted on before we see what lost will be used. That right there tells me it'll be two lists - Nicolau and the APA. And since USAPA can't hold the contract hostage, the three arb panel will make a decision and we're done. Notice there is no distinction between east and west but merely USAPA pilots. If anyone thinks DOH or a three way is possible, you're nuts.

The seniority integration process starts as soon as possible after the effective date, but the filing for single carrier status can take up to an additional four months, and then negotiations for the new JCBA can begin, according to the MOU, pages 6 and 12.

 

[dca319]

'During the McCaskill-Bond process, including any arbitration proceeding, US Airways,
American or New American Airlines, or their successors (if any), shall remain neutral regarding the order in which pilots are placed on the integrated seniority list,'

No NIC........sorry guys. USAPA will be presenting the list to use, not the company.

USAPA won't be doing anything and I wouldn't say no Nicolau either. It's survived this long and I don't see it magically disappearing.

 

[Crzipilot]

Read the MOU a little closer. Not sure what it means but. Section 10 paragraph h.

h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.


Currently in effect would mean a separate east and west list.... No?

 

[dca319]

No. Notice there is no distinction between east and west pilots. We are lumped together as USAPA pilots. And M/B is the mechanism that will be used to change lists so all it's doing is stating an obvious.

 

[Crzipilot]

Notice the plural form of list. As lists? So there is more than one seniority list in effect at Usairways. Not one.
I imagine that would indicate a east and west list not a NIC list. Besides. NIC is not in effect is it?

That section says nothing about Usapa pilots. It says seniority listS. In effect.

Ie the logic that some have said that this mou would be the joint contract an vehicle to activate the NIC. Well this paragraph simply states. This mou or jcba can not be used to change the current lists in effect

 

[Crzipilot]

The seniority integration process starts as soon as possible after the effective date, but the filing for single carrier status can take up to an additional four months, and then negotiations for the new JCBA can begin, according to the MOU, pages 6 and 12.

But arbitrators can not rule until a jcba is ratified. Sec 10a