Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

How stupid are you?

Did you even read the resolution?



That is exactly what this resolution was designed to do. That the NAC would negotiate with the company to put more money into the 401K accounts of ALL (east and west) pilots that don't have PBGC money.

Ask the east pilots and new hires if they would have like to have an equal retirement as the rest of the pilots on the property?

But you east pilots are to narrow minded and selfish to even realize what is going on. This resolution was for both east and west. You guy just thought it was some way to take from you. That maneuver of taking from one group is all east.

Are you guys projecting again, assuming everyone wants something they didn't earn?

 

[A320 Driver]

How stupid are you?

Did you even read the resolution?



That is exactly what this resolution was designed to do. That the NAC would negotiate with the company to put more money into the 401K accounts of ALL (east and west) pilots that don't have PBGC money.

Ask the east pilots and new hires if they would have like to have an equal retirement as the rest of the pilots on the property?

But you east pilots are to narrow minded and selfish to even realize what is going on. This resolution was for both east and west. You guy just thought it was some way to take from you. That maneuver of taking from one group is all east.

No, it was for YOU! It took us decades to accrue these benefits and you want them with the stroke of a pen. The reason the older guys got more money than say a PC-4 was because the younger guys had a longer span to accumulate their retirement. Well, accumulate it. Don't expect the company to just fork it over at our expense. You get your DC plan and you have a 401K. Live with it and stay out of our pockets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not enough you make more money to fly the same equipment, got 40% of our profit sharing and took steps to make sure the company denied us pay parity. Why don't you all just GROW UP!

Driver...

 

[traderjake]

[quote name='luvthe9' timestamp='1355359442' post='959384']
ENTITLEMENT

The fact of having a right to something.

• The amount to which a person has a right.

[/quote]

Pathological Liar

A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder.​

 

[cleardirect]

Well it's true the Nic list exists.. However, the Transition Agreement is very specific about how it will become official. If a merger with American happens, those conditions REQUIRED for the Nic implementation will never happen. The only official lists at US Airways, are the ones both sides currently use to bid schedules with...

Incorrect.

VI. Operational Pilot Integration
A. Except as provided in paragraph B. below, the
airline operations of America West and US
Airways, with respect to pilots, shall be merged no
later than twelve (12) months following the later
of (i) completion of the integrated pilot seniority
list and (ii) negotiation of the Single Agreement
provided that if by that date a single FAA operating
certificate has not been issued, the airline
operations, with respect to pilots, will be merged
effective with the first bid period following thirty
(30) days after the issuance of such certificate.
The Airline Parties will make every reasonable
effort in good faith to secure a single FAA
operating certificate for America West and US
Airways as promptly as practicable. The merger
of the airline operations, with respect to pilots,
under this paragraph A. is defined as the
“Operational Pilot Integration.”

We have an accepted agreed to seniority list.
we have a single certificate.
A single joint contract completes the deal.

We have a completed list. That list was completed under the terms of the transition agreement. Now before you go running off saying that usapa can change the terms of that agreement. Your weak argument just failed this week at the BPR. PHX brought a resolution to have usapa go to the company and amend the T/A to use usapa merger policy. That resolution failed by 8-3 east reps voting against amending the T/A. so the T/A stands as written using ALPA merger policy and the product Nicolau.

A single joint agreement. East, west, APA completes the deal. Nicolau implemented and the list going into seniority integration with american.

There is no requirement to meet these 3 items before a merger. There is no requirement that it just be a contract between east and west. It just says. negotiation of the Single Agreement

Are you beginning to understand yet?

 

[cleardirect]

Keep dreamin' . Pretty sure I've had some '89 hires in the right seat. Good bunch of guys. Certainly wouldn't put any new hire westies ahead of them, even the furloughed ones.

I want to be there when some west guy tells an APA guy that they have to accept an ALPA bargaining position. Let me know when and where that's going to happen.

Even more fun than that would be when an east guy tries to tell the APA that all the east pilot deserve to fly their WB and be senior to them. The reaction would be the same as the reaction I get from United pilots when they talk about east pilots.

You tell them that the usapa C&BL require DOH. I want to be there for that.

 

[EastUS1]

It took us decades to accrue these benefits and you want them with the stroke of a pen.

Why don't you all just GROW UP!

1) From this particular wunderkind, much less the collective, "relative" philosophy out west...well...does any of this latest serve to honestly surprise?...at ANY level? 😉

2) Good luck with that suggestion ever being acted on, or even seriously considered.

 

[cactusboy53]

Another variable for the UCC solidified. Sorta looks like Crandall was right... the key issue is pilot SLI cooperation. Doesn't he know arbitration takes at least two years. Like, Duh.

Longer if any party to the arbitration refuses to abide by the decision. True dat!

 

[cleardirect]

The east pilots who don't get a PBGC aren't clamoring for it. They're relatively young and have decades to build their 401K.

The west is simply up to their usual tactic of trying to steal what belongs to others. It started in Australia, and has not let up.



I hope you never share any benefit of this merger. You westicles were pretty adamant about not getting pay parity for the east, and now taunt us about living on LOA93 forever.

I'm just happy to actually be here to see the old adage come true: "What goes around, comes around."

But....maybe you can send traderjake your address. Once he starts collecting PBGC, he will probably be happy to send you every other check.

Why do the west pilots have to get you pay parity? We are not in charge of usapa. East pilots are running this thing and hold the majority. If you want pay parity. go to the company and negotiate it. You have has 4 years to get it done.

Stop blaming the west for your failures.

If usapa and the east is incapable of negotiating look inside not at the west.

BTE way read the resolution again. We were not trying to take anything from anyone. We were trying to increase the pie for those that did not have PBGC money. That included east, west and new hires.

I guess where you are thief you think everyone is a thief.

 

[cleardirect]

ENTITLEMENT




/enˈtītlmənt/

• The fact of having a right to something.
  
• The amount to which a person has a right.

Pretty much sums you up Clear. You always want something for yourself. If you wanted a pension, you should have gone to work for a REAL airline, not that crap outfit based in Tempe. You guys just cannot get your heads straight with RISK, in your job selection, or WYE RIVER.

Well according to you, you did go to work for a real airline. Do you have a pension? Does United or Delta or Northwest have a pension? Are those real airlines?

Do the east pilots hired after 2000 have a pension or PBGC money?

 

[cleardirect]

No, it was for YOU! It took us decades to accrue these benefits and you want them with the stroke of a pen. The reason the older guys got more money than say a PC-4 was because the younger guys had a longer span to accumulate their retirement. Well, accumulate it. Don't expect the company to just fork it over at our expense. You get your DC plan and you have a 401K. Live with it and stay out of our pockets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not enough you make more money to fly the same equipment, got 40% of our profit sharing and took steps to make sure the company denied us pay parity. Why don't you all just GROW UP!

Driver...

How did this resolution take money out of your pockets? It did not ask for any of the PBGC money.

It was asking that the company put more money in the 401K of those pilots that don't have PBGC money. That is a longer span and time to accumulate.

It was created to get ALL pilots the same retirement. Not just the chosen few.

Take a minute. Calm down, grow up and read the resolution without the biased view.

Do you have a problem with all pilots receiving equal treatment? Do you have a problem with pilots that don't have PBGC money getting a higher contribution in their 401K?

 

[Phoenix]

I think the reality of what is happening in Dallas is crushing in on them and they are coming unglued, firing in all directions, hallucinating, and foaming at the mouth may next be followed by rigamortis.

 

[EastUS1]

Do you have a problem with pilots that don't have PBGC money getting a higher contribution in their 401K?

Call me crazy, but I've a rather serious "problem" with anyone selling Marxist-Communist Ideals and/or philosophy in general....musta' come from a troubled childhood during the Cold War. Too many "Duck and Cover" exercises in futility, I must suppose. 😉

"From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs" Karl Marx

"We Communists have been reproached with the desire of abolishing the right of personally acquiring property as the fruit of a man’s own labor,......." Karl Marx...again 😉

I'd hazard a guess that Karl Marx might well have just loved the very thought of "relative" seniority....just sayin'....

 

[luvthe9]

Longer if any party to the arbitration refuses to abide by the decision. True dat!

Nice job wasting everyones time with your ridiculous 401 money grab. You PHX reps are wasting everyones time, again. AA is figuring the best way to make life easier for them is to cut out the PHX operation. It makes no sense with LA

 

[cleardirect]

Nice job wasting everyones time with your ridiculous 401 money grab. You PHX reps are wasting everyones time, again. AA is figuring the best way to make life easier for them is to cut out the PHX operation. It makes no sense with LA

Wasting time? Are west reps not allowed in your mind to bring things that are important to the BPR? that only east issues are worth of usapa's time? Should have changed that C&BL to reflect your attitude.

It is a good thing that we will have the Nicolau and can move to other bases if you are to be believed about LAX. But you have been saying that PHX was going away for a long time. your crystal ball must be cloudy.

You certainly would not want to see your brother pilots and union members harmed or disadvantaged would you by PHX closing and having nowhere to go.

BTW how is PHX making life hard for the APA? It is east pilots usapa that they are dealing with? Could it be projection that it is you that think life would be easier?

 

[EastUS1]

It is a good thing that we will have the Nicolau and can move to other bases if you are to be believed about LAX.

How droll. I see you're already eager to supplant your "fellow pilots" at American. 😉

Do be sure to mention those aspirations to them, as well as the fact that the west is "saving" all of them, of course 🙂