Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AAviator]

That opinion comes from the APA pilots at the meeting...mainly, but that is their opinion. If they try to arrange our list the way they "think" it should be that is not their job. That again is making USAPA argue how to present the sequencing of their own pilots and that would be a poor argument. But you know what, then we reorganize their list our way and present that.

It makes no logical sense. You're entitled to your opinion but the APA advocates its own side, not ours. Again, if that were so, why even bother to have an arbitration. They chose their way and that's it.

That opinion comes from the APA pilots at the meeting...mainly, but that is their opinion. If they try to arrange our list the way they "think" it should be that is not their job. That again is making USAPA argue how to present the sequencing of their own pilots and that would be a poor argument. But you know what, then we reorganize their list our way and present that.

It makes no logical sense. You're entitled to your opinion but the APA advocates its own side, not ours. Again, if that were so, why even bother to have an arbitration. They chose their way and that's it.

Gold star for you

 

[cleardirect]

Is incontinence a widespread issue with you guys?


I'm beginning to wonder if I should carry a beaded seat cover like the Dominican cab drivers.....

Rubber seat cover. You never know what the last guy was like with east pilots.

 

[AAviator]

We paid dearly with LOA 93, and the only ace up our sleve is the CoC.
It's worth more than what the NAC is bringing to us in the form of an MOU.
Re-read the MOU. The veribage is very clear, very clear. They know that it's a well worded clause and they can't get out of it unless we waive it.
The company was smart and held hostages knowing that it may come down to this...E190 and Westies.
They can't and should not be sacrafical lambs.
First blush is to send the MOU back and get more lump sum...for everyone. Say $100M+

Fatal flaw here is that there is no sending it back.

 

[AAviator]

Same age...and just a couple years less here...you're not so special.
You need to chop down on that cigar, put on your poker face and stay the course.
That's been the problem with this pilot group for decades...no backbone.

The lack of backbone has been an issue plagueing the profession for decades.

 

[cleardirect]

We paid dearly with LOA 93, and the only ace up our sleve is the CoC.
It's worth more than what the NAC is bringing to us in the form of an MOU.
Re-read the MOU. The veribage is very clear, very clear. They know that it's a well worded clause and they can't get out of it unless we waive it.
The company was smart and held hostages knowing that it may come down to this...E190 and Westies.
They can't and should not be sacrafical lambs.
First blush is to send the MOU back and get more lump sum...for everyone. Say $100M+

I am sorry but I did not know we were in section 6 talks.

If this gets turned down the company has no obligation to talk to usapa. Parker has a deal with the UCC and the APA. 4000 pilots out of tens of thousands of employees don't even register on Parker's radar.

This is not normal negotiations. Parker does not get to decide how much to put in the pot. That is done by the owners of the other airline. The UCC. They are first in line to get paid. The Us airways pilots how did you guys put it about seniority? You have to stand in line and wait your turn.

 

[cleardirect]

Same age...and just a couple years less here...you're not so special.
You need to chop down on that cigar, put on your poker face and stay the course.
That's been the problem with this pilot group for decades...no backbone.

If only you east pilots had had the backbone ride that wreck of an airline all the way to the ground. Full pay to the last day you would have shown management.

 

[Pi brat]

Not exactly correct. You were in fact guaranteed fences in the seniority arbitration (albeit conditionally). Here is what Arbitrator Nicolau wrote in his findings:


[font=Times-Roman"]"..US Airways pilots entitled to bid those positions have already been protected for two years. A further fence of four years from the date of this Award is based on attrition projected on Age 60 retirement. [/font][font=Helvetica"]If [/font][font=Times-Roman"]the age limit were raised to 65 and becomes effective prior to the expiration of the condition and restriction in 2011, there seems little fairness in its continuance.[/font]"

To be absolutely correct, the former US Air pilots will celebrate 6 years of fences on May 3, 2013. Carry on.

IF the age 60 rule changes....it did. The 6 year fence is a pseudo fence, caused BY the Nicoalu award and subsequent pilot actions and inaction on both sides. Had the Nicolau been implemented when the age 60 rule changed what fences would there be today? Are we guaranteed fences in this merger as AAviator is counting on to keep from admitting he is wrong? Carry on.

 

[dca319]

The veribage is very clear, very clear. They know that it's a well worded clause and they can't get out of it unless we waive it.

Oh boy. Some of us just never learn. Snapbacks, 3%, etc, MDA - all "well worded'.

First blush is to send the MOU back and get more lump sum...for everyone. Say $100M+

With all the leverage we have, shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Claxon]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, I know as an AA pilot I would likely fare better without the NIC.





But there's this thing called reality.....

The reality of you not having any idea what you are talking about.

 

[Claxon]

If only you east pilots had had the backbone ride that wreck of an airline all the way to the ground. Full pay to the last day you would have shown management.

And you worked for substandard wages and helped lower the bar to your model of no retirements. Way to go scab!

 

[cactusboy53]

IF the age 60 rule changes....it did. The 6 year fence is a pseudo fence, caused BY the Nicoalu award and subsequent pilot actions and inaction on both sides. Had the Nicolau been implemented when the age 60 rule changed what fences would there be today? Are we guaranteed fences in this merger as AAviator is counting on to keep from admitting he is wrong? Carry on.

I stipulated that the four year fence would go down with the change of the retirement age in my post. Maybe we could institute an automatic 20 year fence to be implemented when a larger, angrier pilot group refuses to abide by an arbitration.

"We" can't guarantee any fences if we (LCC & APA) go to arbitration. That is a process of the final and binding arbitration. So we want all the money, all of the benefits, all of the pay that we are entitled to, all of the other guys benefits, all of the other guys toys, and we want it all right now...I've seen this somewhere before....

Oh, I remember. Comedian Billy Connolly's rant on union negotiations. A little raunchy but if the shoe fits....

Let's take a look at the DAL / NWAL merger. Ratioed integration. SMALL fences. BIG pay. Company does SO WELL that it negotiates a second post merger contract 7 MONTHS EARLY. Pilot group generally happy. Be still my heart: A fair ratioed integration, pay, benefits, and a union that works within the rules.

 

[AAviator]

Which certaiinly explains the APA folks getting a 100K$ signing bonus, versus one tenth of that amount for US pilots.. Sheesh! Enough of this nonsense could harm anyone's digestion.

Oh well. Again, a fine evening to All.

The 100K is for losses from our abrogated CBA. It has absolotely nothing to do with LCC.

In fact, the fact that you guys are getting a signinmg bonus is raising the hair on the back of a lot of necks at APA....

get educated dude

 

[cactusboy53]

And you worked for substandard wages and helped lower the bar to your model of no retirements. Way to go scab!

Angry East FO Cyber Bullies unite! https://www.youtube....h?v=tkVXgSowbq4

 

[Claxon]

The 100K is for losses from our abrogated CBA. It has absolotely nothing to do with LCC.

In fact, the fact that you guys are getting a signinmg bonus is raising the hair on the back of a lot of necks at APA....

get educated dude

Watch out. You are starting to piss off the amazing AA pilot. You know, the ones who showed that backbone, er, bone. The bone they slipped TWA. Thanks for the Senate legislation for that consideration afforded your fellow aviators at TWA.

 

[AAviator]

The pilots that get $100k... Did they get that after the APA BOD sent out a company offer with a "yes" endorsement that was rejected by the membership?

APA pilots get a 13.4% stake in the new company. That will me monitized and will result in more that 100K for a lot of pilots. Depending on hom AA emerges from BK, thjat could go up 20-30% based on how much LCC brings to the party. APA PILOTS DO NOT GET TO VOTE ON THE MOU


Did they get $100K after they recalled some of the BOD members that appeared a bit cozy at the thought that management was "just offering the absolute best they would"?

Not to worry, somewhere I remember hearing... "Because its the right thing to do."

We are in coddling hands, aren't we?

You are a product of your environment