Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

Are you suggesting there was transparency under the previous USAPA leadership?

Sure am, a lot more than we have now, no go read it, I am surprised you PHX reps did not let you in on these dirty details, it seems you guys will really be screwed with the when the down sizing starts. BLOCKED BY HUMMEL, don't recall seeing blocked by Cleary.

 

[Portly Dorman]

usapa wasn't invited because of the long history of bad behavior. 5 years at the table how many sections closed?? The nac even tied crew meals to seniority.

"As I have stated many times, usapa was not invited to the table until the very end. Why???" Perhaps because management, apparently correctly from your tone here, estimated the US pilot side to be an "easy kill" for the gross concessions they want from us and didn't worry about group willingness to roll over and beg for even the smallest treat?

"We are stuck with this agreement." Only if enough vote in favor of it.

"It's a pig but it's our pig." Only if enough knowingly choose to provide a trough for it to gleefully squeel and wallow around in.

"We have to accept a bad agreement to get a good agreement."...? Huh? Does that "logic" truly make sense to anyone here? Why's management so happy with this MOU and, after surrendering what they very clearly want in the way of concessions; just how and when would that fantasized "good agreement" magically come to be?

 

[Portly Dorman]

I thought the east were the pros and nothing could slide by them...

That's the point. After being defeated repeatedly by weak, uninforcable contract language contained in ALPA contracts (especially LOA 93, and the TA that failed to get you your precious Nic) there is no one in the union who is more suited to joint the discussion about holes or hand grenades hiding in this MOU.

The continual sales job and exclusions of any actual analysis of the MOU itself is disappointing. I expected better from leaders who promise transparency.

 

[nevergiveup]

Yep! It's over! You won!

Just as LOA 93 never said there would be a snap back, the courts never said, "you must use the NIC." It would have been so easy and clear, but they didn't. As you were.

 

[Phoenix]

I thought the east were the pros and nothing could slide by them...

Each person votes as a single vote, and as such holds their own responsibility to let nothing slide by them. B)

 

[dca319]

Did you know the French tanks had 8 gears in those days? Two forward and six reverse.

Yes. I actually heard it as 4 reverse and 1 forward but the gist was the forward gears were in case the enemy attacked from the rear.
I see your full court press against this MoU is going strong Jamie. And for someone who purports himself to not care anymore you sure have kept yourself busy these past few days.

 

[nic4us]

Pack your house up, and get ready to move then. Cause your little desert home is getting "rightsized" No doubt.

I am sure lots of "rightsizing" will transpire.

Where do you think the PHL people will go?

 

[nic4us]

....... don't recall seeing blocked by Cleary. [/b]

Really, let me refresh your memory.

There are a lot of migs in PHX who were denied knowledge of why their union president ran out of a meeting in Tempe to go file for an emergency ruling from the 9th.

There was a West rep kicked out of an open usapa meeting, a clear violation of his rights and police report filed.


Hmmmmm.....the more I think about it, you scabs are going to really be pissed when this is all over.

 

[signals]

I am sure lots of "rightsizing" will transpire.

Where do you think the PHL people will go?

That's easy, they will Move2CLT!

Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛

 

[signals]

Somebody anybody please quote my previous post!

 

[Zone5]

This is part of the APA presentation regarding SLI and the following is a synopsis of the APA presentation at the recent joint APA/USAPA meeting in DCA:

Captain Gary (APA) referenced the history of how this legislation came into law as it evolved primarily from the TWA acquisition by AMR, but then went on to discuss how “Fair and Equitable” could be achieved and ruled upon by a panel of three neutral arbitrators. As you’ll notice from the above slide, Date of Hire is referenced and was mentioned as being one of the most equitable avenues towards integration. However, Captain Gary went on to discuss several caveats which could affect the weighting of a pure DOH integration as they pertained to career expectations at the time of the merger. He stated that one factor may be if one pilot group was significantly older or younger than the other group. Another aspect could be if one side brought an aging fleet of aircraft to the mix while the other party had a fleet of relatively new aircraft as well as the future plans of orders on either side. The final component that was mentioned was the comparative pay rates of both pilot groups. In other words, if one side was making a considerable amount more or less than the other side, an argument could be made that the pilot group making more money would be increasing the expectations of the other pilot group and should, therefore, be treated accordingly in a merged seniority list. We point this out because this is the opinion of our Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski, which was shared by our peers at the APA in DCA, and could easily be the opinion of the APA Merger Committee, and potentially the opinion of the arbitrators involved in our seniority integration.

Interesting, no mention of the NIC, imagine that!

Furthermore, it looks like being on the MOU pay scale might be kind of important too.


seajay

 

[nic4us]

My read of the MOU and the SLI process it puts into place is that the NIC is dead. If I really thought otherwise, I would not vote for it regardless of anything else in it!

Will a seniority based integration with the APA transpire in the JCBA negotiation/arbitration going forward? Who knows, more than likely some hybrid agreement combining DOH, longevity, relative position, size ratios, equipment ratios, fences, freezes.....ect, ect, ect, will coalesce. Nobody will get everything they want, the "snapshot" will be taken in the present and it won't include the NIC.



seajay

The MOU does not kill the Nic.

The Nic is a certainty whether the MOU passes or not.

There is no way to take a snapshot of LCC without including the Nic.

 

[Phoenix]

That's easy, they will Move2CLT!

Meep-meep 😛 😛 😛

 

[nevergiveup]

The MOU does not kill the Nic.

The Nic is a certainty whether the MOU passes or not.

There is no way to take a snapshot of LCC without including the Nic.

Got some 8 tracks you might like.

 

[luvthe9]

The MOU does not kill the Nic.

You are correct it is already dead.