Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767one]

Yep, only a tool like him would try and compare Parker to Lorenzo.

Bean

Yep, It gives Lorenzo a bad reputation.

All the best,

Bob

 

[cleardirect]

Lawyer: How have every other work group at LCC been combined?

Answer: Well, that would be DOH.


seajay

No. All other work groups followed their merger policy and lived up to their agreements.

 

[Zone5]

Yep, It gives Lorenzo a bad reputation.

All the best,

Bob

Too funny! At least Lorenzo was a "pioneer" so to speak. While, Parker is a "copy cat" corporate raider. They have a lot in common.

Anyone want to gander a guess on how long it will take before the APA "honeymoon" will be over with "Team Tempe"? My guess.........not long! At least through the POR I suppose, once the JCBA negotiations commence, that should do it. At least we will be able to take something of a brief breather.


seajay

 

[Zone5]

No. All other work groups followed their merger policy and lived up to their agreements.

I hate that for you! All the other work groups followed their merger policy to COMPLETION, because the majority determined that their "policy" yielded an acceptable resolution, which just so happened to be based on DOH. 😱 How could that be? Obviously they just don't understand how "fairness" is determined. All those disparate work groups with ONE thing in common, I guess they just aren't as "enlightened" as you 'small, insignificant, cash-squeezed western airline" pilots, who want it all and want it now. How is that attitude working out for you on this last bid?


seajay

 

[cactusboy53]

I hate that for you! All the other work groups followed their merger policy to COMPLETION, because the majority determined that their "policy" yielded an acceptable resolution, which just so happened to be based on DOH. 😱 How could that be? Obviously they just don't understand how "fairness" is determined. All those disparate work groups with ONE thing in common, I guess they just aren't as "enlightened" as you 'small, insignificant, cash-squeezed western airline" pilots, who want it all and want it now. How is that attitude working out for you on this last bid?


seajay

May I assume then that since APA is the "majority" of our new airline, that you will understand and applaud whatever policy that they yeild as an acceptable resolution? You'll be the luckiest son-of-a-gun if they don't attempt to do to us what USAPA has done to the PHX based pilots (DOH-lite list on Doug's desk, (unsuccessful) RICO x 2, Address-Gate, etc.) in the past 5 years.

Enjoy the ride, Seajay. I'd buckle up, it's going to get bumpy well before it smooths out.

CB

 

[snapthis]

May I assume then that since APA is the "majority" of our new airline, that you will understand and applaud whatever policy that they yeild as an acceptable resolution? You'll be the luckiest son-of-a-gun if they don't attempt to do to us what USAPA has done to the PHX based pilots (DOH-lite list on Doug's desk, (unsuccessful) RICO x 2, Address-Gate, etc.) in the past 5 years.

Enjoy the ride, Seajay. I'd buckle up, it's going to get bumpy well before it smooths out.

CB

Their DOH dream died with this merger. There will be a change of control which will be unpleasant for Usapians as well. They are going to the back seat and get a plate full of majority rule which means they will need some of that Vaseline they used to screw us.

 

[flyer63]

May I assume then that since APA is the "majority" of our new airline, that you will understand and applaud whatever policy that they yeild as an acceptable resolution? You'll be the luckiest son-of-a-gun if they don't attempt to do to us what USAPA has done to the PHX based pilots (DOH-lite list on Doug's desk, (unsuccessful) RICO x 2, Address-Gate, etc.) in the past 5 years.

Enjoy the ride, Seajay. I'd buckle up, it's going to get bumpy well before it smooths out.

CB

Yeah I'm sure it will be bumpy. How long before you west reps embarrass yourselves?... I'm pretty sure you will act up at the joint meeting in Dallas scheduled next week. Try to keep a lid on your childless behavior.

 

[cleardirect]

I hate that for you! All the other work groups followed their merger policy to COMPLETION, because the majority determined that their "policy" yielded an acceptable resolution, which just so happened to be based on DOH. 😱 How could that be? Obviously they just don't understand how "fairness" is determined. All those disparate work groups with ONE thing in common, I guess they just aren't as "enlightened" as you 'small, insignificant, cash-squeezed western airline" pilots, who want it all and want it now. How is that attitude working out for you on this last bid?


seajay

I must have missed the part about agreeing to arbitration but only if the majority likes the result. Please point that out.

Do the other work groups also have a 40% pay differential between two employees one number apart in seniority?

Do the other work groups get pay differential by the equipment the clean, book, load, board or fix? Are you advocating for a single pay rate for all seats and equipment?

 

[cleardirect]

Yeah I'm sure it will be bumpy. How long before you west reps embarrass yourselves?... I'm pretty sure you will act up at the joint meeting in Dallas scheduled next week. Try to keep a lid on your childless behavior.

OK now that is funny right there.

It has been east reps that for the last 5 years have played games, created drama, threatened, caused an illegal job action and embarrassed themselves with long winded BS updates and attacked anyone not "on board" even east pilots.

No it was Crimi that stormed out like a little kid from the BPR meeting because he did not like what he was hearing.

For the childish behavior look no further than your own reps. The west reps have done a fine, professional job. They will continue to do so and probably have to apologize a few times for east behavior.

It is going to be fun to watch the change in tone from the APA. More professional, less emotional.

 

[767jetz]

Congratulations! The ugly girl finally made it to the alter. USAir and USAPA RIP.

Good luck to the west in finally resolving your seniority dispute and moving on with your careers.

Good luck to the AA/TWA pilots. I hope you realize what you're up against. (Lock those 777/787 manuals away somewhere safe!)

 

[Zone5]

May I assume then that since APA is the "majority" of our new airline, that you will understand and applaud whatever policy that they yeild as an acceptable resolution? You'll be the luckiest son-of-a-gun if they don't attempt to do to us what USAPA has done to the PHX based pilots (DOH-lite list on Doug's desk, (unsuccessful) RICO x 2, Address-Gate, etc.) in the past 5 years.

Enjoy the ride, Seajay. I'd buckle up, it's going to get bumpy well before it smooths out.

CB

I don't think it is going to be all that "bumpy" of a ride. At least we won't have to be riding it out in the cheap seats. I also think that a negotiated SLI is preferable and achievable.

As I have said since my very first posts on this forum, there is no reason why pilots can not come to a mutually agreed upon and ratifiable SLI amongst themselves. It might not be a pretty or pleasant process, much like making sausage and caesarian birth, but in the end the results are worth the effort.

Why do you suppose the "agreed upon" process going forward is in effect? Could it be what resulted from the TWA and the NIC travesties? Why do you suppose that even ALPO changed their merger criteria to include LOS as a major factor and if necessary a THREE arbitrator panel in their latest "new" policy?

As far as specifically what the SLI will turn out to be, stay tuned. I will consider this merger a win for all the pilots involved, if the SLI is achieved through negotiations conducted by and for the pilots. If that turns out to be the case, I will be 100% supportive of the outcome. If it goes to arbitration, then it will be what it will be and we will all just have to live with it, like it or not. Hence my personal preference that it be a negotiated agreement. Will everybody like ANY SLI? Certainly not, but at least it will be what the pilots agree to, not what a bunch of lawyers decide to shove up our collective butts!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

So we should believe you and not the NAC or merger lawyer that said the MOU was seniority neutral.

Got it.

How exactly did the MOU get rid of the Nicolau?

Pursuant to this Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (this “Memorandum”),
US Airways, Inc. and any successor (collectively, "US Airways"),
American Airlines, Inc. (“American”),
Allied Pilots Association ("APA"), and
US Airline Pilots Association ("USAPA”, and with US Airways, American, and APA, the “Parties”), hereby agree as follows:


Paragraph 4., LAST SENTENCE:

"Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."

USAPA and APA are the ONLY TWO PARTIES allowed to "treat" with each other during negotiations and if unsuccessful, before the three arbitrators. AOL IS NOT A PARTY. WEST "CLASS" IS NOT A PARTY. Harper is not a party. The company is a party ONLY WITH the exceptions of 10(B).

"The company(ies) will be parties to the arbitration, if any, in accordance with McCaskill-Bond. The company(ies) shall provide information requested by the merger representatives for use in the arbitration, if any, in accordance with requirements of McCaskill-Bond, provided that the information is relevant to the issues involved in the arbitration, and the requests are reasonable and do not impose undue burden or expense, and so long as the merger representatives agree to appropriate confidentiality terms."


d. During the McCaskill-Bond process, including any arbitration proceeding, US Airways, American or New American Airlines, or their successors (if any), shall remain neutral regarding the order in which pilots are placed on the integrated seniority list, but such neutrality shall not prevent said carriers from insuring that the award complies with the criteria in Paragraph 10(B)(i)-(v).

So companies provide data to USAPA & APA and they construct lists each party thinks it should be. If they don't agree, then EVERYTHING STARTS OVER IN ARBITRATION.

 

[Pi brat]

Anything written by Ted Reed should just be ignored. He shot his credibility long, long ago.

When he said something that you didn't like, right? There is that whole pot/kettle thing again.

 

[end_of_alpa]

OK now that is funny right there.

It has been east reps that for the last 5 years have played games, created drama, threatened, caused an illegal job action and embarrassed themselves with long winded BS updates and attacked anyone not "on board" even east pilots.

No it was Crimi that stormed out like a little kid from the BPR meeting because he did not like what he was hearing.

For the childish behavior look no further than your own reps. The west reps have done a fine, professional job. They will continue to do so and probably have to apologize a few times for east behavior.

It is going to be fun to watch the change in tone from the APA. More professional, less emotional.

Right. Sucking up early, I see.

 

[nic4us]

Speaking of predictions,

I predict the merger will be announced tomorrow in the KTUL maintenade hangar where we recently saw the unveiling of the new paint scheme!

So where is the official announcement/press conference taking place?

Did I only get this half right?