Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Reed Richards]

What's American's call sign?

"Pepsi"

 

[mrbreeze]

The AAMRQ (AA penny stock) shot up 88% this morning, so I have pocketed around $80K on this stock in the last couple of months in my 401k through the Brokerage Link.

Sure helps offset the money lost in defending our seniority over the last few years. B)
breeze

 

[flybynite]

🙂

 

[Res Judicata]

Doubt it will even make it to the court room. (ref. 9th)

Care to wager? Think no one can see through all the USCABA treachery and lies? Every Judge has warned the scabs. Every single one. Did that modify their behavior any? Hell no. See you one again, in court.

 

[767jetz]

Get lost troll. At least the AA guys won't hear "Hired, not acquired" like the UA guys were so proud of saying. So glad we never merged with the marvins. I'd hate to have to ask for a ride report EVERY time I checked in.

Awe shucks! Did I hit a nerve, Pi?

Still sore about the anti-acquisition bag stickers? Or was it the pre-nup that got under your skin?

Can't wait to see how your DOH pipe dream unfolds now that you will be part of a REAL airline. Let me guess... you "ONLY" have eyes on a 767 captain position in JFK, or MIA, right?? Good luck with that.

I'll agree with you on one point. I count my blessings that we never merged with your toxic, dysfunctional, regional airline carcass.

My TWA buddies are bracing themselves for what's in store. They are well aware of your history and reputation. Welcome to the minority and enjoy the ride. You control exactly nothing from this point forward.

 

[dca319]

Pursuant to this Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining Agreement (this “Memorandum”),
US Airways, Inc. and any successor (collectively, "US Airways"),
American Airlines, Inc. (“American”),
Allied Pilots Association ("APA"), and
US Airline Pilots Association ("USAPA”, and with US Airways, American, and APA, the “Parties”), hereby agree as follows:


Paragraph 4., LAST SENTENCE:

"Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any status quo arising thereunder."

USAPA and APA are the ONLY TWO PARTIES allowed to "treat" with each other during negotiations and if unsuccessful, before the three arbitrators. AOL IS NOT A PARTY. WEST "CLASS" IS NOT A PARTY. Harper is not a party. The company is a party ONLY WITH the exceptions of 10(B).

"The company(ies) will be parties to the arbitration, if any, in accordance with McCaskill-Bond. The company(ies) shall provide information requested by the merger representatives for use in the arbitration, if any, in accordance with requirements of McCaskill-Bond, provided that the information is relevant to the issues involved in the arbitration, and the requests are reasonable and do not impose undue burden or expense, and so long as the merger representatives agree to appropriate confidentiality terms."


d. During the McCaskill-Bond process, including any arbitration proceeding, US Airways, American or New American Airlines, or their successors (if any), shall remain neutral regarding the order in which pilots are placed on the integrated seniority list, but such neutrality shall not prevent said carriers from insuring that the award complies with the criteria in Paragraph 10(B)(i)-(v).

So companies provide data to USAPA & APA and they construct lists each party thinks it should be. If they don't agree, then EVERYTHING STARTS OVER IN ARBITRATION.

And I bet the Nicolau is in there as a starting point. The company is not going to risk litigation from a DFR that had proven merit. No LUP assures that we're hosed.

 

[Monkee]

OK now that is funny right there.

It has been east reps that for the last 5 years have played games, created drama, threatened, caused an illegal job action and embarrassed themselves with long winded BS updates and attacked anyone not "on board" even east pilots.

No it was Crimi that stormed out like a little kid from the BPR meeting because he did not like what he was hearing.

For the childish behavior look no further than your own reps. The west reps have done a fine, professional job. They will continue to do so and probably have to apologize a few times for east behavior.

It is going to be fun to watch the change in tone from the APA. More professional, less emotional.

Watching the east become more and more insignificant is pretty hilarious. Majority rules, right? Hypocrites

 

[767jetz]

Money walks and bull#### talks.

LCC http://finance.yahoo... Key Statistics

UAL http://finance.yahoo... Key Statistics

Looking forward to putting you ALPA pukes out of BUSINESS.

Congratulations for subsidizing your airline's bottom line at the expense of your fellow pilots and your family! You must be so proud!

Now bring it on. But before you do, better talk to Parker about AA's continued weakness in the Pacific.

More big talk from a small person. I forgot how much fun it is sparing with the dregs of the industry!

I'll be back to check in on that pesky seniority thingy from time to time.

(And for the record, I think AA will do just fine going forward. But certainly not from anything you bring to the table.)

 

[Pi brat]

Awe shucks! Did I hit a nerve, Pi?

Still sore about the anti-acquisition bag stickers? Or was it the pre-nup that got under your skin?

Can't wait to see how your DOH pipe dream unfolds now that you will be part of a REAL airline. Let me guess... you "ONLY" have eyes on a 767 captain position in JFK, or MIA, right?? Good luck with that.

I'll agree with you on one point. I count my blessings that we never merged with your toxic, dysfunctional, regional airline carcass.

My TWA buddies are bracing themselves for what's in store. They are well aware of your history and reputation. Welcome to the minority and enjoy the ride. You control exactly nothing from this point forward.

Yeah, you are such and A$$ that you always hit my nerves.

Typical know-it-all marvin attitude. It wasn't my DOH dream, as I never thought that would fly with any other airline.

I want to stay in CLT for the rest of my career. How is that for a "want"? That and to do my very best to kick UA to the curb.


You know what is hilarious? Seeing UA guys talking about DOH on another board. No wonder you like the few AWA pilots that are trolls on here. Same sense of integrity.

Run along.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

THANK GOD! The most dangerous sh!tbag airline is going to the crematory. And the most destructive pilot group is being neutered in six months. Things are looking up in this industry. Peace to all!

Yeah, quite a turnaround for your career, aye? At least the guys at AA and US knew what it was like to be chosen to work for a real airline. Hell, you were hired at America West and now look at you. Trust me the SkyNAAzis know all about your Westies and thank god for you they no longer use a stapler for their lists because you guys would be at the end of pile. So stop bitching you got lucky. Now get ready to put your houses on the market because PHX is about to get downsized.

Later,
Eye

 

[cleardirect]

I don't think it is going to be all that "bumpy" of a ride. At least we won't have to be riding it out in the cheap seats. I also think that a negotiated SLI is preferable and achievable.

As I have said since my very first posts on this forum, there is no reason why pilots can not come to a mutually agreed upon and ratifiable SLI amongst themselves. It might not be a pretty or pleasant process, much like making sausage and caesarian birth, but in the end the results are worth the effort.

Why do you suppose the "agreed upon" process going forward is in effect? Could it be what resulted from the TWA and the NIC travesties? Why do you suppose that even ALPO changed their merger criteria to include LOS as a major factor and if necessary a THREE arbitrator panel in their latest "new" policy?

As far as specifically what the SLI will turn out to be, stay tuned. I will consider this merger a win for all the pilots involved, if the SLI is achieved through negotiations conducted by and for the pilots. If that turns out to be the case, I will be 100% supportive of the outcome. If it goes to arbitration, then it will be what it will be and we will all just have to live with it, like it or not. Hence my personal preference that it be a negotiated agreement. Will everybody like ANY SLI? Certainly not, but at least it will be what the pilots agree to, not what a bunch of lawyers decide to shove up our collective butts!


seajay

You can hope and wish all day long for a negotiated list. How did that work out for you last time? When you DEMAND unreasonable things no one is going to agree. The east refused to move off of DOH/LOS. The west would not agree the aPA is not going to agree to DOH.

The east has boxed yourselves in with the C&BL. DOH. When the APA does not agree to DOH where does usapa go from there? usapa can't negotiate anything but DOH. Once again you bring up ALPA and LOS. Face it. You are not going to get DOH/LOS in this merger either. Relative seniority is where we will end up. If you accept that early you are going to be much happier.

You say you will be supportive if the list is negotiated. Would that be like usapa negotiated with the west. This is the list take it we are the majority you have no say? Will you be 100% supportive if the majority shoves a list up your 6 like usapa tried to do?

You don't want lawyers to shove a list up your butt but you wanted the majority to shove it up the west. You are going to be very disappointed if majority indeed does rule like the east thought happened.

 

[Zone5]

The NIC is only a "travesty" because it is your opinion. There was no lawyer that decided to "shove" anything. The AAA Merger committee argued how DOH was the ONLY list they would be a party to. They didn't have a "plan B". Had they been more reasonable and argued something different, you may have seen a list that was more palatable. Further, the AAA MEC communicated that DOH was a lock. The parties agreed in advance to comply with the award. There are no do-overs or crossing fingers.

Have you seen what kind of a list is generated in a mutually negotiated SLI in the recent past? Personally, I would prefer to have the case heard from an impartial party. We'll see what is proffered.

CB

Thanks for the "History" lesson, not that anybody paying attention needs one. I will agree with you that the AWA-AAA SLI attempt was poorly executed, due primarily to the intransigence of BOTH pilot groups and you are correct, there will be no "do-over" of the AWA-AAA SLI, because there never was one, as the ratification of an East-West JCBA (a requirement to complete the integration, as per the TA) never occurred and now, never will.

I guess we just have a philosophical disagreement on how best to proceed, I have no problem whatsoever with a pilot negotiated SLI ratified by a majority of the pilots who will be governed by it. Such an agreement is most definitely my preference, no need to explain further why you prefer not to go with the majority rule approach, I think we all pretty much get that.


seajay

 

[snapthis]

Yeah, quite a turnaround for your career, aye? At least the guys at AA and US knew what it was like to be chosen to work for a real airline. Hell, you were hired at America West and now look at you. Trust me the SkyNAAzis know all about your Westies and thank god for you they no longer use a stapler for their lists because you guys would be at the end of pile. So stop bitching you got lucky. Now get ready to put your houses on the market because PHX is about to get downsized.

Later,
Eye

You better put your glasses on. That may be your wish but I don't think it's going to come true.


Phoenix airport: Our hub will survive American merger
by Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

Updated: 02/14/2013 09:49am

"Executives at US Airways have publicly stated that they have no intention of giving up their Phoenix passengers, even after they move some administrative jobs out of their Tempe headquarters building," the airport adds in its statement. "With such a strong demand for air service in Phoenix, Sky Harbor is a significant player in the airport arena and critically important to the industry."

"In my conversations with the leadership at US Airways, they have been very clear that Phoenix is critically important to the airline and they intend to keep Sky Harbor as a hub," Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton says in the release. "While other cities in the country may have had challenges in merger situations, they did not have the passenger traffic that we do here at one of the nation's top ten airports and that makes all the difference."

Sky Harbor officials also expressed hope that the merger could allow a bigger American to add overseas routes from Phoenix as it optimizes its international network.

 

[noDOH4u]

If it goes to arbitration, then it will be what it will be and we will all just have to live with it, like it or not.

seajay

Really?? Really REALLY??!!! You mean THIS time you will live with what an arbitrator decides?

GMAFB! We all know your tune by now. You will only live with an arbitrated solution if it is the one YOU want. Otherwise you will throw a hissy fit, stomp your feet, and tell anyone who will listen how unfair it is. (And by you, I mean USAPA and the collective east.)

 

[Beancounter]

And I bet the Nicolau is in there as a starting point. The company is not going to risk litigation from a DFR that had proven merit. No LUP assures that we're hosed.

I don't know how all the seniority stuff will play out, but in the long run this could be a really good thing. A stable airline run by a competant management team. Good for for east, west and American employees. I'd like to stay on the Internet, but I've got a busy morning. Looking forward to my lunch break where I can sit in Starbucks for an hour and finally watch the news.

Bean