Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

No it is not. Answer me why the East is hiring, and using a date of hire contract. The guys furloughed out West are taking recall to the East list, and not using the Nicolau List. I ask you why Dave ODell then did not slot into the East seniority list with a Nic number? It would take a ratified contract to enable the Nicolau List, with East and West agreeing to it. USAPA is not bound to the Nicolau List, by court order. You know better.

Wrong on all counts...first, the east is not hiring...LCC is hiring and placing new hires on the east because we have a scab union holding down pay and using LOA93 to undercut West pay, so it is cheaper to put them on the east.

Second, the east is not using a DOH list, otherwise Odell or any West recall would come in above at a minimum the third listers, not to mention the east list is not even DOH to begin with!

Third, what the courts have said is usapa is free to negotiate within the confines of it's DFR, that is a far cry from not bound to the NIC, which is a product of binding arbitration entered into by the pilots usapa represents.

To sum...the NIC is still the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. The TA is still controlling separate ops. If a merger happens it will be the NIC and the other company's list combined per MB.

 

[nic4us]

Sure they are. A company telling a union they have to integrate according to the companies wishes. Even after the 9th Court of Appeals says they don't, as well as Judge Silver. You are honestly one of the stupidest posters here.

Here is another one for you Swan......

How and from whom do you get a certified list?

 

[nic4us]

McCaskill-Bond, the law, established federal binding arbitration... but it also provides for the parties to come to a consensual agreement on their own...

Who is to say that both paths to SLI, under McCaskill-Bond, are not equally binding????

Hmmm.

Well, if usapa cuts a deal that redistributes the pilots it represents in a manner other than NIC order, I would suspect we would find out that it is equally binding as had the lists gone to arbitration, and that the successor union would be equally liable for under that circumstance.

 

[Ames]

If you're not worried, why are you on here crying about it all the time? Sounded like you were whining just a few posts ago.

Nobody's crying. Just stating the facts. Facts that you fail to comprehend.

 

[nevergiveup]

Wrong on all counts...first, the east is not hiring...LCC is hiring and placing new hires on the east because we have a scab union holding down pay and using LOA93 to undercut West pay, so it is cheaper to put them on the east.

Second, the east is not using a DOH list, otherwise Odell or any West recall would come in above at a minimum the third listers, not to mention the east list is not even DOH to begin with!

Third, what the courts have said is usapa is free to negotiate within the confines of it's DFR, that is a far cry from not bound to the NIC, which is a product of binding arbitration entered into by the pilots usapa represents.

To sum...the NIC is still the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. The TA is still controlling separate ops. If a merger happens it will be the NIC and the other company's list combined per MB.

Looking on the company wings website, I do not see the NIC list. Maybe you should call them.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hummel already knows. They're going to maintain radio silence to the last second. The second APA is the new union and USAPA is thrown on the trash heap of history... Where it belongs, the Nic will be set in stone. It will all happen simultaneously. The East will be dumbstruck....as per normal when reality clashes with their world view. They'll sue everybody they can think of in total futility. There is no cause of action, it's over.

There's a name for you, and it rhymes with Enron.

 

[Phoenix]

Well, if usapa cuts a deal that redistributes the pilots it represents in a manner other than NIC order, I would suspect we would find out that it is equally binding as had the lists gone to arbitration, and that the successor union would be equally liable for under that circumstance.

Here is the point Nic. AOL did everything in its power to deny USAPA its bargaining rights to bargain... rights that it possesses (that AOL does NOT possess) by authority of the NMB and the RLA (and this was reaffirmed by Silver). Sure there is this threat that USAPA better do ONE particular thing because if they don't they will be in big, big trouble (even though SCOTUS affirmed "wide range of reasonableness").

If the court won't dare exercise any power over USAPA and the Company NOW, then what will motivate the court to penalize anyone if the parties come to a consensual agreement based upon exercising their rights under provision of the MB law? Especially after the company begged the court to intervene and provide guidance (and pretty much said that it would be futile to sue the company for merely failing to hold to the Nic)? Also consider, if an arbitrator under MB decided to use three lists, the outcome would be immune to any lawsuit, so how would the parties under MB be any less protected by MB? The threshold to persuade any court to at long last award penalties after such deliberate and fierce avoidance of even a hint of meddling, and with the added force of MB entered into the mix.. the threshold to get a court say boo will be astronomical. I am not telling you how it will end up but the interests of APA and USAPA are obvious.

Merry Christmas.

 

[luvthe9]

. I am not telling you how it will end up but the interests of APA and USAPA are obvious.

Merry Christmas.

It will end being a DOH with AMR with 5 to 7 yr fence.

 

[luvthe9]

No it is not. Answer me why the East is hiring, and using a date of hire contract. The guys furloughed out West are taking recall to the East list, and not using the Nicolau List. I ask you why Dave ODell then did not slot into the East seniority list with a Nic number? It would take a ratified contract to enable the Nicolau List, with East and West agreeing to it. USAPA is not bound to the Nicolau List, by court order. You know better.

Spot on, so much denial out west, it's been over, sorry Danny boy!!!!

 

[traderjake]

It will end being a DOH with AMR with 5 to 7 yr fence.

How much do you want to bet?

 

[Metroyet]

How much do you want to bet?

He's already bet hundreds of thousands of dollars. Poor 99 hire, 2013 is going to be a REALLY ugly year. Best of luck finding that Legitimate Union Purpose nobody seems to be able to articulate.

 

[nevergiveup]

How much do you want to bet?

DOH with fences would not surprise me at all. Nothing lost, nothing gained..

 

[N924PS]

Looking on the company wings website, I do not see the NIC list. Maybe you should call them.

It's right below the USAPA DOH list on Wings.

 

[Metroyet]

DOH with fences would not surprise me at all. Nothing lost, nothing gained..

You're in for a VERY BIG surprise then.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The courts have said it doesn't have to be the Nic(DFR and all that yada yada), but I don't think I saw any court say it can't be the NIC either.

Last I looked, DOH isn't implemented either. I figure the worst thing that could happen is 3 seperate lists being used. Of course I should know better than using a phrase like 'the worst that could happen,' I could be shocked lol.

Nothing would surprise me, other than usapa's DOH list being used that is. I'll just keep on keepin on and see how it goes down.