Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

So what di Mr. Parker mean in the crew news video when he said it would be a 3 way?

You're trusting a man who doesn't even know what his own legal team is saying in court? Really??

You ever thought maybe he's just chumming the water so the RTB's can get all excited and he get's another year of not paying the pilots? Dug heard the message loud and clear day one, COST NEUTRAL, She Leham said it and Dug listened.

PD

 

[EastUS1]

It's just nice to be able to vote on something.

Umm...ok...I'll just suggest doing so only after knowing what it truly is that's being voted on, one way or the other.

As you've noted to another: "You're trusting a man who doesn't even know..." All should know prior to casting any votes. That's all.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Umm...ok...I'll just suggest doing so only after knowing what it truly is that's being voted on, one way or the other.

As you've noted to another: "You're trusting a man who doesn't even know..." All should know prior to casting any votes. That's all.

Is it better to decide on what best for you (see the agreement and then vote) or be told it was bad and never have the chance?

PD

 

[cleardirect]

So what di Mr. Parker mean in the crew news video when he said it would be a 3 way?

I don't know what he meant. Neither did he when asked.

A better question would be what did Parker say to the court and the NMB.

Go read the filings for your answer.

 

[Metroyet]

Yep, you got it exactly right.
That's exactly what the process for integration states in the mou.
Looks like the east is really screwed.
No doubt about it.

Your fake union needs to concoct a LUP for ignoring the Nic. I don't think that's up for debate. Only the East thinks they have one...even though nobody is able to articulate what, exactly, it is. The Company is ON RECORD acknowledging the fact that they already have a list and are mandated to use it unless the there is a legally defensible LUP not to. The Company hasn't heard about any LUP. And they won't. Ever. It's a myth.

Everybody knows this except the idiotic jihadists out East.

 

[Claxon]

Geez you guys calm down. I had to fly a trip no one has gone anywhere. Did not know that you all missed me that much when I am not here to explain things to you. Don't worry your little heads it will be ok.

The NDA is still in effect. No details have been released yet but an intelligent person can figure this out.

First question you have to ask is why did it take 3 days to pass when the APA did it in a day? What possible item or items could be included in the MOU that had the east reps tearing their hair out?

Swan asked about seniority. No I don't think seniority is included in the MOU. But I do think that an MOU gets us to a joint contract which implements the Nicolau. In addition don't forget that usapa asked the NMB to start talks again. Both parties had to respond. Usapa has not relaesed the companies response to the line pilots? What do you suppose the company told the NMB? Might it be what they told the court that they think they are legally bound by the Nicolau and will be sued and loss if the company uses anything other than the Nicolau?

In my opinion the reason it took so long to swallow that bitter pill by the east reps is because this MOU is not even close to what usapa promised for a contract and what many of you have been pounding your chest about. All the talk about leverage and sacrifices and being repaid. You get none of it. We all saw the last MOU, my guess is it is not much different maybe a little bigger signing bonus but not $100,000.

What you guys are going to find is an MOU that is very close to what Parker offered in the Kirby 5 years ago. Jack Stephan testified that there was 10% to be had.

West captain 142 plus 10% = $152. That was 5 years ago. The new APA rates are around $165. Not a huge difference but a lot of money you guys gave away over the course of 5 years and we would be working on the second contract probably getting $165 or more.

So the east reps, Bradford and the rest are going to have to stand up and sell you east guys on a contract today that you could have had 5 years ago and end up with the Nicolau. What was this whole usapa experiment about to bring you back to the exact same place 5 years later? Total failure.

That I believe is why it took 3 days to swallow that sh&$ sandwich and figure out a way to keep you east pilots from killing your leadership.

The Nicolau is the list, no doubt. It just will not be included in the MOU. You guys can only take one beating at a time.

The only trip you flew was to the little girls room. You obviously don't fly. You couldn't possibly fly and post as much as you do.
Second, you told the biggest group of lies, then fled for the sand. Welcome back. Liar. And windbag. More on the suicide watch for the eastern group. What a bag of hot air.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Yes, he is. He said so. He said that he is legally bound to negotiate with USAPA, not AOL or the westies. He knows where the liabilities are. The Nic is STILL dead.
Count on it.

He does have to sit down with usapa. They have to have a LUP to change the list. 'It wasn't fair' is not a LUP.

Parker also told the employees he wouldn't furlough anyone to bring furloughees back, how'd that work out??

Liabilities are with usapa, not the NIC. Dangerous Grounds.... Is it an inbreed disability on the east to read a complete quote? Read what ninth said, all of it, not just what you want to read.

Parker's saving at least $122 million based on your emotions....

PD

 

[Claxon]

​​

Look. There is only ONE properly vetted, legally defensible, accepted JOINT seniority list. America West is LOOOOOONNNNNGG gone. There isn't a 3 way. It's only the Pilots in service of US Airways and the Pilots in Service of American Airlines. Getting your hopes up that there is going to be some miracle that allows the East to simply Dictate terms, unquestioned, without any consequences that will survive even the slightest legal review is absurd.

Final and Binding Arbitration is....guess what? Final and Binding. Those aren't words taking lightly out of thin air. They are the foundation of a multitude of dispute settlements. USAPA didn't all of the sudden discover the magic pill that makes all Final and binding Arbitrations somehow subordinate to approval of the majority. Only a complete fool and idiot would believe that, (hello USAPA Voters!!)

In the interest of sanity, it's a good idea of one was a DOH disciple to start accepting a different reality. The critical mass has been reached. This is moving fwd regardless of USAPA. You've been over-run by events and rendered useless. Vote....Don't vote...cry...stomp your feet....do whatever you want. Nothing is going to change.

The inmates have run the asylum for over 5 years now. It's over.

Here is your rebuttal. You are clearly the dumbest on the board. By far.


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[Portly Dorman]

The only trip you flew was to the little girls room. You obviously don't fly. You couldn't possibly fly and post as much as you do.
Second, you told the biggest group of lies, then fled for the sand. Welcome back. Liar. And windbag. More on the suicide watch for the eastern group. What a bag of hot air.

So sez the poser...

PD

Cleary's rat was trolling out west, just ask him if he saw CD

 

[Portly Dorman]

​​

Here is your rebuttal. You are clearly the dumbest on the board. By far.


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

PLEASE bring forth your LUP.

We are all waiting.

 

[Claxon]

PLEASE bring forth your LUP.

We are all waiting.

New buzzword for the Cleardirect crowd. Martyr Harper must be leading you on with the new catch phrase. Keep the donations coming!

 

[nevergiveup]

I don't know what he meant. Neither did he when asked.

A better question would be what did Parker say to the court and the NMB.

Go read the filings for your answer.

Based on what Judge Silver said, Mr. parker has no worries.

 

[nevergiveup]

PLEASE bring forth your LUP.

We are all waiting.

A pay raise for all works for me!

 

[Phoenix]

.. They have to have a LUP to change the list. ...

Thats not exactly how Judge Silver said it... for your review...


"Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose."

Your hope is that 1) someone, anyone, anyone anywhere, will disallow USAPA to retain and use their seniority proposal, and 2) that someone, anyone, anyone anywhere will instead issue USAPA the Nic as their only seniority proposal. The LUP language is not what you want it to be. It is not a merit test before a seniority proposal is used, but rather a merit test after the fact. Who do you propose will use the LUP language before the fact, if Silver didn't? Who has the authority to do what Silver couldn't?


Also for your consideration...

"American Airlines and US Airways, with participation of committee counsel for the Unsecured Creditors Committee, are pleased that they have completed discussions with the Allied Pilots Association and US Airline Pilots Association intended to develop a framework for the terms of employment for pilots, as well as a process for pilot integration, in the event of a merger between AA and US during restructuring."​

Another question for your consideration....

If ALL pilots vote on a process of integration that fails to explicitly require the Nic, does Judge Silver's order remain intact, and is the West still bound by it? Are you sure that the old TA will have any relevance at all?

 

[Phoenix]

PLEASE bring forth your LUP.

We are all waiting.

You are waiting, sitting ready to judge USAPA's seniority proposal... You are in the BOUND CLASS. That means Silver not only didn't grant you authority to judge LUP, she explicitly denied you that authority.

"Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”



But don't feel left out, wait just a little longer and you will get to vote on the new TA that stipulates a process for pilot integration.