Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

This has been the crux of the matter since last fall. What "exactly" is an MOU and how much OR how little is the value of it, other than the mantra of "it gives us a seat at the table" maranatha.

The more I read the MOU I simply don't see the logic other than a permission slip to "tag along" with us and dance among the daisies.

If we truly want to be included in the process, voting this "MOU"/? down and starting over is the best for ALL, East and West. What's in it for the both of us?

It makes APA EXPOSE more of its "ideas" on exactly where we fit in on the playing field. Remember, AMR and US management are dukeing it out behind the scenes without OUR input, why shouldn't we reciprocate?

I understand that "he who has the gold makes the rules" but the BK court controls the purse strings. We are a minority in pilot numbers, but we could put one heck of a legal dent in the operation if the judge agrees with us.

He is an idea from the company play book: Lets take some of our dues money and buy enough cheap AMR stock so we can get into the UCC game? (Unions traditionally have never though outside the box).

Good thing unions don't follow your advice.

Stock holders are the last in line of creditors. Buying worthless stock gets you nothing.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat,
I'm retired so can't vote but can still be affected by what goes on with the mou/contract. I have a concern about the non-qualified funds (Davy dollars). During MOU #1 I asked the retirement insurance folks if those funds were at risk and the answer was probably not. I'm still waiting on the answer about MOU part deux. Don't know if you have any of those Davy dollars but just because they show up on the Fidelity web site does not mean that they are inviolable. We have to remember they are notational in nature, the money is not really in the fund. When I got my first Davy dollar check I expected it to come from Fidelity but it came from USAirways.

If anyone has any info on the Davy dollars that they got from the road shows it would be greatly appreciated. My guess is that they are going to be gone if they are not mentioned.

Hope all is well with you and yours,

Regards,

Bob Moore

Hey Bob,

I don't have any Davy Dollars so I have to say that never crossed my mind. Good question. Aren't they kind of at risk either way?

Hope retirement is serving you well!

 

[cleardirect]

Can the usapa president engage the union in a law suit???

Mike Cleary did that all on his own.

A law suit that was dismissed after only a couple hundreds thousand were spent.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Captain, captain captain.

Not an AOL video. That was an east crew room.

Finally seeing how silly and childish you east guys sound?

You mean Internet trash talk was an "East" production??. Silly and Childish. hmmm.
See example here:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YFS_ssKOaE&feature=relmfu

 

[end_of_alpa]

Good thing unions don't follow your advice.

Stock holders are the last in line of creditors. Buying worthless stock gets you nothing.

Sorry, my bad. Bond holder positions is what I meant

You can flog me now.

 

[cleardirect]

You have no "career expectation" at AWA now you can't wait to steal APA jobs you think you are entitled too. It never ends with you boys. Guess what you are far from equal with AA.

What a hypocrite.

Got anything to say to Woody about his latest rant?

But don’t worry, your NAC says they will try to fix that problem; just like management will try to integrate the seniority lists, implement them and not fence us out of DFW, ORD and LAX for 10 years.

It seems that Woody does not want to get locked out of what the APA boys have. Looks like he is trying to steal APA jobs.

 

[traderjake]

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Voting With the West

I am sure that you have heard the accusations about me voting with the West. This opinion is promoted by Bill Glynn, a CLT based pilot whom I have never met. When I don’t vote the same as his CLT Representatives and, if the PHX Representatives vote the same way I do (by the way they vote after PHL), he always makes a point of bringing it to everyone’s attention. This is especially true if the CLT Reps. are not satisfied with a particular vote. It truly makes no difference what the issue is; it is the fact that I don’t fall in line with their thinking. It is not uncommon to have several pilots call me after reading the ”Glynn Spin” and after discussing the issue, they agree with me and my vote.

Just to review, we had an election for the USAPA Officers last Spring and Bill McKee, CLT, has never quite understood that Gary Hummel won. As a result the CLT line of thinking has been to go against President Hummel on just about everything he has tried to do. Since the new Officers have taken office, no windows have been broken, no computers have been reported stolen from the office (the security tapes showed no one stealing a computer), and no one has had their email spoofed to send an email to our Attorneys. The fact is the Union is running like a business and we have four Officers that are working together to help facilitate this. By the way, the new USAPA headquarters is working out just fine and the BPR members enjoy easy transportation to and from the airport and the close proximity of hotels and restaurants to the office when we are in session. This Summer we have been in session a lot and the efficiency of the location has helped us do our work.

So as far as Bill Glynn saying I vote with the West, we ALL have on occasion. I have witnessed CLT vote with the West, DCA vote with the West and all of PHL vote with the West. There is one understandable area of disagreement with the West Pilots and on that issue we will continue to disagree. Glynn also spreads the rumor that Gary Hummel negotiated the MOU with Parker. This is an insult to the NAC and our Professional Negotiator who put in countless hours on our behalf in negotiating the MOU. Mr. Glynn practices politics of division and I rate his credibility right in line with those that support the theory that the U.S. Government took down the Twin Towers on 9/11.

Beware of those that are campaigning in this election with the support of Bill Glynn. He is not in support of pilot unity. He is a promoter of political infighting and the internal strife that have been completely counterproductive to our cause.

Fly on the Wall

Perhaps you have seen or heard about the email that has been circulating by a “Fly on the Wall”, or saw the Ted Reed article on how the BPR arrived at a unanimous vote in support of the MOU. Well before we give the CLT Representatives and two PHL Representatives too much credit, let’s look at the part of the story that was untold. On the night of January 2, after the first day of the meeting in which the MOU was passed, several East Representatives were talking and it was brought up by Pete Dugstead, DCA, that perhaps we could create leverage that we could trade with the UCC that they could use with AMR if we would provide a unanimous vote. Steve Crimi, CLT, said there was no way he was voting for the MOU. When asked for a reason why, he said that unless the minimum block protections were improved he would not support it. Paul DiOrio, who worked on the minimum block protections told him that there was no way the Company would agree to further improvements. So we left that night with no way to create additional leverage to be traded for improvements.

The next day, after the threat (they were threatening you not me) of using a roll call vote to block you from having a chance to vote, Steve conceded and agreed to provide a unanimous vote. He was told that if he wanted to get something he was going to have to give something in return. He did the right thing in the end but there is no way that five guys got the improvement on their own or even had the original idea of trading the unanimous vote for an improvement. Pat Szymanski drove it home to them that as mentioned the night before by Pete, it was going to take something to get something. The rest of us were willing to discuss it 24 hours earlier and were flatly rejected. Maybe we could have come up with more had they worked with us.

By the way, all of what I mentioned above happened outside of closed session except for what has already been released by others to Ted Reed and of course the Fly.

Seniority Aided by the MOU

It is O.K. to dream. Some among us are dreaming of a day when after the pilots reject the MOU the Company comes back to offer us a better deal or sweetens the pot. I hope that their dream comes true if the MOU is in fact rejected by the Pilot Group.

On the other hand, if it is rejected and they don’t come back, we will have to wait and see what the merger consist of and whether we feel COC is triggered. If we feel it is, we will pursue it through every avenue available to us.

The problem occurs when it drags on and we find ourselves not having a decision on COC and whether we get the snap back wages and we are involved in seniority integration. At that point, your dream could quickly turn into a nightmare that many seem to be discounting. It is this nightmare scenario that our Merger Counsel, Pat Szymanski warns us about.

With the MOU in place, we will all enter the McCaskill-Bond process on a level playing field considering compensation. If, instead we are still on LOA 93 wages, APA will put forward the argument that our career expectations are diminished due to our wages and that they are responsible for bringing our wages up to their level and therefore deserve higher placement on the combined seniority list.

To see how this could play out let’s compare our wages with the MOU 2014 rates that will be applicable to APA. Their 12 year Group 2 Captains will make $181 and F/O’s $123. Their year eight Group 4 F/O’s will make $145. From these rates it can be shown that all of their Group 2 Captains make more than any of our Captains. Our Group 3 Captains make roughly what an eight year Group 4 F/O makes at APA. Our Group 2 Captains make slightly more than a Group 2 F/O at APA.

I would look for the APA starting position based on career expectations to be a list that starts with all of their Captains followed by our Wide Body Captains integrated with their Wide Body F/O’s. Then our Group 2 Captains and their Group 2 F/O’s with all of our Group 2 F/O’s bringing up the rear.

In short, if we turn down the MOU and are not successful in winning the COC argument in a timely fashion it could spell “career over” for many of us. The dream has the potential to become a nightmare under this scenario.

The time to vote in this election and on the MOU is running out. Don’t take for granted that others will the job for you. Remember, if you have already voted you can change your vote right up until the polls close. If you choose to elect me as your Chairman, I will continue to represent you and your interests using common sense, logic and sound reasoning in decisions going forward in this process and others. I appreciate your support in this election and ask for your vote for PHL Chairman. If you have your VIN and PIN, to cast your ballot now, go tohttps://www.BallotPoint.com/USAPA or by phone 800-826-5530. For further reading I urge you to go to http://jamieweidner.com

Respectfully,

Jamie A. Weidner

 

[traderjake]

Since the new Officers have taken office, no windows have been broken, no computers have been reported stolen from the office (the security tapes showed no one stealing a computer), and no one has had their email spoofed to send an email to our Attorneys.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Dude, that was out of line. East and west are in this crappy deal together. Seniority aside, this thing will affect us both negatively.
Cheap shots are easy but don't help any of us.
Cheers.

Funny, but Nic4Us, cleardirect and the other West pilots posting here come to mind when you state the obvious, that "this thing will (or even may) affect us BOTH negatively"?

Doesn't that bring to mind their "scorched earth" policy?

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[cleardirect]

Since the new Officers have taken office, no windows have been broken, no computers have been reported stolen from the office (the security tapes showed no one stealing a computer), and no one has had their email spoofed to send an email to our Attorneys.

That all happened under the Cleary time in office. You did not hear about that? Transparent union, not so much.

 

[tripod727]

Sign Now, Ask Questions Later!

…on the eve of the MOU Vote, the MOU is modified...what exactly are we now voting on?





[font="""]Fellow pilots, why is our union (certain officers and board members excepted) – chasing this deal so very hard? If the deal is good for all, then they will come to USAPA, as they must, so long as our Contract isn’t signed away in the MOU.
If we give up Scope and Change of Control for a promise from a bankrupt airline, whose reputation in mergers is ferocious, we are idiots. If we do the same, based upon the promises from Doug Parker, we are imbeciles.
We are not signing onto a “bankruptcy contract”….we are signing on to a deal that puts us below the pilots of that bankrupt carrier, in equity, opportunity for access to ALL the airframes, destinations and types of flying of the ersatz combined airline.[font="""]
We are not guaranteed the FACT of an implemented combined single seniority list, access to the airplanes, equity of flight time in crew bases and access to those former American crew bases. All the MOU provides for is an EFFORT in the direction of what we think of as a “Merger”.
You think life will be the same, except you will make more money? PBS, Green Book; nearly 400 pages of crappy language that will be culture shock to the majority of us.
Need an example? In the Green Book, if any leg is scheduled for 5+00 hrs. and you fly it, Allegheny Style in 4+21, you get paid 4+21. No more scheduled or actual, whichever is greater. No more pay bank. Since we average 3-4% under fly, month, over month, subtract 3-4% from that new pay rate. Just one little nugget in a 400 page minefield. But don’t worry, your NAC says they will try to fix that problem; just like management will try to integrate the seniority lists, implement them and not fence us out of DFW, ORD and LAX for 10 years.
The merger has such potential. The terms of this MOU are a disaster. The law and our contract say that a no vote isn’t the end; it’s the beginning of a more equitable deal.
In the last two days of the MOU Referendum, Gary Hummel and a few of the Board members have decided it is okay to materially change the MOU, (para. 18). This is a black and white document which has been the sole focus of your consideration and its content cannot be materially changed, without invalidating the spirit and perhaps the legality of the results of the election. Further, to announce those results before AMR endorses the merger, is the silliest squandering of our leverage, since Para. 14 GAVE AWAY our Scope and Change of Control.[font="""]
Welcome to amateur hour with your future in the balance. Call your representatives and demand that the election cycle be extended until AMR decides to s**t, or get off the pot. (sorry for the scatological analogy…it seems so apt, when discussing the MOU!)[/font][/font][/font]

That must be the reason the American guys taxi so slow

 

[end_of_alpa]

Since the new Officers have taken office, no windows have been broken, no computers have been reported stolen from the office (the security tapes showed no one stealing a computer), and no one has had their email spoofed to send an email to our Attorneys.

The rest of the story. Gary went above the BPR fall of 2011 and put out an email that went totally against the intent of confidentiality with his so called and self described bombshell about the legal and personal issues with Seham's law firm. I understand Gary felt left out just like Ciabattoni did when he was EVP. However, as I said previously, the EVP position should have never been put in.

In short, I was there for this HUGE discourse in policy but Cleary was attempting to resolve this issue at the USAPA office doors, not in a public forum. Gary is NOT a team player.

Of course, it seems like in this day and age nobody is a team player.

 

[luvthe9]

Since the new Officers have taken office, no windows have been broken, no computers have been reported stolen from the office (the security tapes showed no one stealing a computer), and no one has had their email spoofed to send an email to our Attorneys.

Sorry again Danny boy your going too lose this one also, Jamie is toast here in PHL.

 

[luvthe9]

. Gary is NOT a team player.

Now that is simply not true Gary is a team player, just not on the pilots team.

 

[traderjake]

Gary is NOT a team player.

Says the guy who quite the union he helped create.

Did you try threatening Gary?

Maybe it would have worked on him.