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I agree with this to a point.Glenn Quagmire said:Sad as it is, this thread only exists because Delta does not treat "all" their employees fairly and pay them wages equivalent to union wages. It is difficult for some who have been union all their lives to understand the non-union, military style leadership that Delta promotes. That said, thE pendulum has swung in the direction of non-union. This will not change any time soon. The industrial union model is toast. People like 700UW are dinasours.
At the same time, this has not taken fire for several reasons. The employees are at-will, however, they are willing to trade that labor for what Delta is offering.
I am a big supporter of the right to bargain collectively.
The current workforce is more worried about their next Facebook post or instagram than they are putting in the work required to organize a campaign.
Do good work, and hope you get along with the boss.
Uh, what are you talking about? Do you work for Delta? the company has its own little sub-section on DeltaNet completely devoted to the IAM. Why would they have this if the drives were dead?townpete said:To be fair, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ah ole 700 condescending to a mechanic in a shop. Just because you think his job should be outsourced because the IAM thinks support shops are stupid doesn't mean southwind isn't relevant. Any union vote at the company means much more to me and him than it does you.700UW said:Cause you hide in your shop and don't interact nor work with the ramp workers.
And what you want to know or what' you think isn't relevant as you won't have a vote as your a shop mechanic.
IAM tell you say such stupid things or what? Any union vote does effect us. Example, the ramp votes in a union and goes on strike, are you saying that means nothing to everyone else? (maybe not, your union is known for scabbing work when other go on strike. Yet another attempt from the IAM to destroy aircraft maintenance)700UW said:Ever going to come up with an original thought?
You don't work the ramp, it doesn't effect you, do you not understand that fact?
Don't see you whining about the pilots and their CBA and ask.
Nor do you complain that Anderson makes millions, and has an employment contract.
Nor do you complain how DL spends millions with third parties to keep their employees from having a voice in the workplace.
i don't think you can at this point. As you see above I think unions like the IAM are crap. In-house or maybe AMFA, nothing else. (and in the case of the FAs I don't believe in joining a union with members who are trying to take your job, ie expressjet. I have the same issue with ALPA)Kev3188 said:How would you go about fixing it?
probably not. Anytime a vote gets called the pro-union people over celebrate and the anti-union crowd lets the butt hurt flow.WeAAsles said:I'm curious. If there are employees that want an "employment contract" at Delta and could have it without being part of any Union, would you or could you support their choice?
very simple, like I said above, you can't offer me a current union contract for my craft from any of the airlines (including UPS and FedEx) that doesn't end up with me taking a big QOL hit (and in most cases send a lot of people out the door)WeAAsles said:People on this thread. Do you ever think about how many contracts you're a part of?
Mortgage, Rent, Water, Cable, Internet, Phone, Credit Cards, Etc.
All items that you need money to live up to the parameters of those contracts. But a few of you who fight against the idea tooth and nail don't have a contact to protect the biggest item in your lives. Your jobs.
To me it's like choosing to walk through the neighborhood with your pants down around your ankles.
I honestly have no clue what makes some of you tick?
you don't know what you are talking about.WeAAsles said:Oh and Petey. Don't tell me that you have the internal Company procedure to help you. You and I both know that once you go out that door, you'll never walk back through it again.
thats a part of it for sure.jcw said:All you have to do is look at the fighting the unions are starting at AA to see why most DL folks don't want a union
I am going to go with, just an example, a few of your "brothers" who have said they are more than happy to outsource everyone below them for a big pay raise and geo pay.WeAAsles said:What fighting? Where? The Pilot letter? Big woop. That's just a little theater. A playful jab to keep management in line a little.
Aren't your Pilots Unionized as well? What, have they always been Lovey Dovey with management? LMAO. NOT!!!!!!!
I bet you are tossing typical pro-union crap and don't know what you are talking about. I know of quite a few people who should have been fired and were given more than 1 chance.WeAAsles said:You mean you were disciplined for something. Have you ever been fired? If you were you obviously were brought back.
I bet these DL guys can't tell me a time they remember someone being fired who came back?
In MIA how many people do you know that got fired and were brought back?
I know of more than that. I have seen Delta give people chances, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, chances on issues that they shouldn't have.southwind said:And will call bullsh!t on this one as I personally know of 2 people, in my little insignificant shop area as 700 refers to it, that have walked back through the door!
Is it okay for US to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to numerous third parties?700UW said:HOA.
So it's ok for DL to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to numerous third parties the outsource wor too?
Places like Singapore, Hong Kong, Mexico and other counties?
you have made it clear that you do whatever the IAM goes with. All the matters to you is airframe overhaul and line MX.700UW said:I see your lying again.
Never said your shop was insignificant.
exactly1AA said:Let me say from experience. If your satisfied the way the company treats you and compensates you within reasonable means then stay away from the IAM or any industrial union. It will just create stress on you and your family when it comes to negotiations and lack of communication. Why buy something you don't need? Just because someone from the outside looking in is telling you what's best for your own good?
uh, exactly which part of that is a lie?townpete said:
More lies from someone who never worked at DAL....
just two notes here700UW said:You do realize 40% of DL's ramp and CSA are ready reserve employees?
Those 40% are subsidizing the full time and part time employees at DL.
Their medical is the worst and high copays and costs.
And DL is using RR in maintenance now, and has contractors working along side their own DL mainline employees.
DL's goal is 50% RR and 50% regular employees.
as have have asked you 100 times before, you keep running back to "well this happened in BK"700UW said:Dont put words into my mouth.
I dont advocate nor never supported outsourcing, my former classification was totally outsourced except for 50 jobs in the hangar in PIT and CLT, all line Utility was gone, so tell me why would I support outsourcing my own job?
You seem like a pretty smart guy, but why cant you grasp the fact the IAM and US couldnt reach an agreement in bankruptcy part two and out CBA was abrogated.
Do you know why we couldnt reach a deal?
Because they wanted to outsource and layoff 46% of the maintenance workforce and terminate our pension.
The IAM never agreed with the company and never agreed to outsourcing, it too a Judge's gavel to abrogate our CBA to permit outsourcing, which the IAM never negotiated nor agreed too.
Guess you dont know the IAM won a $400 million grievance against US for outsourcing 10 Airbus narrowbody planes to ST MAE?
I have a copy of the Arbitration Award if you would like to see it, PM me an e-mail address.
You truly have no idea of what transpired in chapter 11 at US, nor the gains made in the Transition Agreement, with the HP/US Merger.
So for once will you actually comprehend what happened?
So again, engines are stupid.700UW said:Wrong again about outsourcing at US. Only stuff sent out was engine overhaul except the Jt8 and the tays, and a few components.
It took a judge to abrogate our CBA to permit US to outsource in mass.
Geez your a broken record.
700UW said:The ACA has zero to do with health insurance at the airlines.
Why does PMUS have Cadillac plans that cover way more and is way cheaper than DL or AA's insurance?
And DL, AA and US are self-insured.
Don't let the facts get in your way.
My bad Dawg. Maybe I should have been specific to the group I work in, Fleet. You're a part of a more skilled craft that the company's invest quite a bit more financially into each individual. So yes I can see people in your group coming back far more often then mine. I believe Kev did say that he's never seen anyone come back who was walked off on the ramp?topDawg said:I bet you are tossing typical pro-union crap and don't know what you are talking about. I know of quite a few people who should have been fired and were given more than 1 chance.
I know of more than that. I have seen Delta give people chances, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, chances on issues that they shouldn't have.
That's a lie and you probably don't know it.700UW said:Wrong again about outsourcing at US. Only stuff sent out was engine overhaul except the Jt8 and the tays, and a few components.
It took a judge to abrogate our CBA to permit US to outsource in mass.
Geez your a broken record.
The ACA has zero to do with health insurance at the airlines.
Why does PMUS have Cadillac plans that cover way more and is way cheaper than DL or AA's insurance?
And DL, AA and US are self-insured.
Don't let the facts get in your way.
And how much of that $400 million was given the the laid off workers and how much did the IAM put in their coffers?700UW said:Dont put words into my mouth.
I dont advocate nor never supported outsourcing, my former classification was totally outsourced except for 50 jobs in the hangar in PIT and CLT, all line Utility was gone, so tell me why would I support outsourcing my own job?
You seem like a pretty smart guy, but why cant you grasp the fact the IAM and US couldnt reach an agreement in bankruptcy part two and out CBA was abrogated.
Do you know why we couldnt reach a deal?
Because they wanted to outsource and layoff 46% of the maintenance workforce and terminate our pension.
The IAM never agreed with the company and never agreed to outsourcing, it too a Judge's gavel to abrogate our CBA to permit outsourcing, which the IAM never negotiated nor agreed too.
Guess you dont know the IAM won a $400 million grievance against US for outsourcing 10 Airbus narrowbody planes to ST MAE?
I have a copy of the Arbitration Award if you would like to see it, PM me an e-mail address.
You truly have no idea of what transpired in chapter 11 at US, nor the gains made in the Transition Agreement, with the HP/US Merger.
So for once will you actually comprehend what happened?
The ACA has EVERYTHING to do with rising insurance rates EVERYWHERE, including AIRLINES with so-called "CADILLAC PLANS"!700UW said:Wrong again about outsourcing at US. Only stuff sent out was engine overhaul except the Jt8 and the tays, and a few components.
It took a judge to abrogate our CBA to permit US to outsource in mass.
Geez your a broken record.
The ACA has zero to do with health insurance at the airlines.
Why does PMUS have Cadillac plans that cover way more and is way cheaper than DL or AA's insurance?
And DL, AA and US are self-insured.
Don't let the facts get in your way.
Ah I see you asked southwind I thought. (he is TechOps too)WeAAsles said:My bad Dawg. Maybe I should have been specific to the group I work in, Fleet. You're a part of a more skilled craft that the company's invest quite a bit more financially into each individual. So yes I can see people in your group coming back far more often then mine. I believe Kev did say that he's never seen anyone come back who was walked off on the ramp?
Does DL ramp get 2nd 3rd and 4th chances? But in fairness I have seen you write that the ramp needs representation. And I've never spoken for what Maintenance at DL needs or doesn't need.
its free southwind, everything the government gives to people is free. That is how they can keep giving more and more free stuff.southwind said:The ACA has EVERYTHING to do with rising insurance rates EVERYWHERE, including AIRLINES with so-called "CADILLAC PLANS"!
Just who the hell do you think is paying tab for ObamaCare, for the peeps getting subsidies?
I did ask Southwind. But only because he is the voice of anti labor when it comes to anybody and anyone it seems. From all the things I read and what they put up as proof on that FA FB page I think maybe they do need a Union. Or a CBA at least since a few on here are so anti established name labor group. They have pointed out a lot of bad chit that happens to them. And they're not anti company although the opposition really wants to paint them in that light.topDawg said:Ah I see you asked southwind I thought. (he is TechOps too)
I couldn't tell you on the ramp. I don't really know anyone on the ramp.
But yes, If i were on the ramp I would be trying to get a union in. I feel like Above wing, FAs and TechOps probably doesn't need a union. Ramp is just all over the place in everything. Policy is all over the place, outsourcing is all over the place, Ready reserve is all over the place.
I posted a list one time of all the stations DL would have to make mainline ramp (and this was pre-717 build up) if they had the northwest scope, it was a ton of stations.
But the fact the stations like MIA, RDU, CLT, MCI, SAN and some others are DGS is crazy.