The reason those 'union people' can't leave us alone is because they are working next to us. Union's are not an outside force. They are a group of people that work at the company that desire a contract with the company. I have a contract with my bank for my house mortgage, why shouldn't I have one with my employer?
Delta Mechanic Wages.......
- Thread starter Raizin_Cain
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aislehopper said:
Another GREAT reason for Delta employees to want to have a union. Your company is in bankruptcy, they can't acquire anyone.
Unions only protect their own. TWA got messed because they believed when AA said a "fair integration" of seniority. Fair to AA meant stapling.
I wish you all the best. Nice to see your CEO stepping up to the plate though....that will definitely help morale. It's a bumpy ride but "that which does not kill us, only makes us stronger".
aislehopper
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Fly said:
However, for me to be stapled under you, UAL has to be in a position to purchase.
Also, reread the article on seniority integration that is posted on the ualafa website. It reads like the afa is pushing flying date for seniority integration in mergers between afa carriers and represented non afa carriers because we all do the same job.
Fly said:
Thanks for the kind thoughts.
B
B.O.B.
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aislehopper said:
The Reno Air acquisition was very simple. No UNIONS! The TWA aquisition (not a merger) was a little more difficult. AA made TWA file for BK prior to the take over. The TWA flight attendant union (IAM) signed away their seniority to the APFA, so that made the seniority integration very easy (stapled). The other unionized work groups, were slotted depending on the agreement. The TWA Pilots got slotted 1 for every 7 AA Pilots. This was only for the 250 most senior TWA Pilots. I don't know how the mechanics and ramp agents were slotted.
So, if Delta decides to merge with another carrier they will have to honor the contracts if they have seniority protection for an aquisition/merger. If Delta is taken over, then all of you will be stapled to the bottom, except the Pilots.
WorldTraveler
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Pan Am and Western both had flight attendant unions but they were not "stapled to the bottom" when those airlines and their assets were acquired by Delta. Sorry, Fly, but there are companies that can do the right thing even without a contract.
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<_< Your generally right on TWA, most counts, but there really was a little more to it than that! To make a long story short! aa, and company screwed TWA employees big time!!!B.O.B. said:
You and about 5,000 other TWAers are still working, aren't you? Imagine if you had ended up with NW, UA, US, DL, CO, or HP; they all pretty much farm out heavy overhaul. Where would you be now? They would have closed MCI looooong ago and none of you would have been working. Yet AA still employs about 950 ex-TWA people in MCI. Still bitter because AA, it's unions, and employees did not drop to their knees and kiss your a$$ as you walked into our airline by giving you your full TWA seniority? Did you really think that we nAAtives would have allowed ourselves to be stapled under you? The situation is what it is and will be FOREVER. The TWAers can either accept it or quit or retire (and receive pension, life and health insurance from that evil AA that so screwed you).MCI transplant said:
WorldTraveler
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Cain,
tell us how the 7% cut in Tech Ops compares with other mechanics. It also appears from what I've read that your dept. had the lowest wage cuts at Delta. Is that true?
tell us how the 7% cut in Tech Ops compares with other mechanics. It also appears from what I've read that your dept. had the lowest wage cuts at Delta. Is that true?
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If you compare mechanics wages at Delta with all the other airlines we were 2nd from the bottom, $21 more a month than Jet-Blew, Air-Tran just got a raise. Our F/A's,ramp and of course our Pilots were far from being 2nd from the lowest in the industry, hence only a 7% cut, which's puts us at the bottom. This year alone I have personally seen about a 35% cut including benies. Mechanics have been leaving before these cut's ,can't wait to see what happens now. We were told we're not compared to other airlines, we are now compared to MRO's. O.K. if you want to be an MRO and pay MRO's wages shouldn't we be charging Delta's ass for working on their aircraft? Oh and just my opinion here...There has been at least 3 major air disasters out of the U.S. recentely, maintanence I'm sure performed out of the U.S. on them too, and now I think we're just starting to see some of this LOW-quality maintanence trickle into the U.S. JET-BLUE. Yes they have maintanence performed out of the country. You would think bells and whistles would be going off. Just wanted to say, great job by the pilot, maybe if said maintnence had been done by a qualified mechanic in the U.S. he would'nt have had to face that situation . Good luck. America's going to need it !!! :unsure:
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<_< No aa there are no where near 5,000 left! Even if there were! Where did the other 17,000 ex TWA employees go??? There were 22,000 when aa bought TWA! And that was just, what, four/five years ago?? I do believe your the only one that believes exTWAers should kiss aa's a$$ for how they've treated us! As for my take on the seniority issue! I've always said I believe "fair" would have been somewhere between D.O.H. and Stapel!!! But somehow that was too much to ask for!!! :down: :down: :down: As for why their keeping MCI open? Simple! It's for the money the City and State are giving them to do so!!! And maybe, just maybe, upper management might see some potental value here!!aafsc said:
You did get something in between a staple and D.O.H. with Kasher. But you keep crying about how you were screwed because you did not get D.O.H systemwide. And I will say it again, if the remains of TWA would have ended up with another airline, MCI would have been gone. Other than AA, name one airline that does almost all their heavy overhaul inhouse; just one! Also, doesn't that state and city money go to refurbish that 50 year old base instead of just going to AA's coffers? As for how many ex-TWA people are left, I will look at the new lists and give you a count shortly; and I am pretty sure it is around 5,000 total.MCI transplant said:
According to the latest seniority lists, there are 795 ex-TWA agents (res, gate, ticket, cargo etc,), there is a total of 2,484 ex-TWA TWU represented for a total so far of 3,279. Estimate around 500 pilots and about 1000 management/support/specialists/clerical and the estimated total comes out to about 4,779- almost 5000. There was about 20,000 domestic employees at the time of the asset purchase (you're including the TWA people overseas obviously). So where did the 15,000 go you ask? A lot got laid off (TWAers rightly got laid off before more senior nAAtives) and a lot retired. What about NW, they went from 10,000 AMTs a few years ago down to 4,400 until Aug 20 and 0 today. UAL canned half it's AMTs (12,000 to 6,000), Delta is in the process of canning theirs (with another pay and benefits cut), USAir, the same. Who would have thought five years ago that the TWAers in MCI would outlast the AMTs at NW, DL, UA, US, Alaska, and HP? And the reason they did IS because of AA.MCI transplant said:
I think another reason we only got cut 7% is we are starting to have a retention problem. We had a system wide furlough at the start of the summer. So far I've seen internal bids for LGA and BOS go unfilled. We are also now running 140 mechanics short in the ATL hangar, with more leaving every week. This latest round of pay cuts will push more out the door.
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<_< aa----- This is not the time or place for this debate! But if you insist! That's right! "Kasher", not aa, gave us 100% here at MCI, and STL! So what was aa's responce to that??? Get reed of, or cut back as much as posible, MCI and STL!!! It dosen't take a genious to figure out what they have done! But I guess I haven't aqused you of that either, have I ??? Read the previous posts by these people at Delta regarding TWA! They've got this thing figured out!!! 😉aafsc said:
