Delta pilots authorize strike
- Thread starter JayBrian
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Good thing they "practiced" it last week. Now any kind of strike they have should be a "flaming" success. Boy...I sure do hope it goes as well as practiced. Thanks fellas/ladies. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
Flufdriver
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Ch. 12, I agree. I'm also glad they "practiced". I really didn't think it was that hard to walk in a straight line and follow the guy two feet in front of you, but maybe it is. They looked like they were doing a pretty good job on the local news all dolled up in their uniforms. I don't know of any other work group in any industry that had to "practice" striking. It seems real simple....I think the industry is about to reduce alot of capacity!! WT will just be devistated!
luv2fly
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You know as well as I do Ch. 12 there are two sides involved here. Funny how you manage to accuse only one.
We'll find out real soon how serious management is about negotiations. For everyone's sake, lets hope both sides decide to play ball, otherwise last one out turn off the lights.
Glad you were so impressed. Perhaps you'll get to see it again in a few weeks.
If wearing your uniform proudly constitutes "dolled up", I'll take that as a compliment.
You are right about one thing. It is real simple. Throw out the contract and the pilots are on strike. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it fluff.
Yes...one side needs wages to be in line with what a struggling industry can afford and the other won't budge from wages that are no longer affordable in a time when LCCs have added way too much capacity and tanked yields.
And the "proudly worn" uniforms you mention constitute flight bags (yes...part of the uniform to the public) that have venemous propaganda and unprofessional statements posted to them in the form of stickers. I have seen these on a larger and larger number of bags in the past few months and kind of think it is hypocritical for a group to call themselves "proud" or "professional" with such tactless displays. To be fair, I know that you may not have such stickers and I truly hope you don't (what was wrong with the simple Boeing stickers, anyways?) but a larger percentage of your brethren do and they don't make it look like they are there to "play ball" as you say.
Look in the mirror. I see and economic situation that involves BOTH sides. I think it is YOU who only sees one side. I can't be cordial anymore about a situation where pride and ignorance are going to cost me and 49,999 other people their jobs.
cheerparty
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I couldn't agree more!!!! I certainly hope that you pilots are willing to live with yourselves after so many employees and their families are affected by this!!!! I see both sides of the story, but you have got to get over yourselves. The employees had no choice about the concessions that we had to take. Does it even bother you that so many lives are in your hands, or are you guys really that selfish and self-centered? I think the latter. Bottom line....you will have a much harder time finding employment than others. Who is going to hire a pilot right now with the industry the way it is? Some income is better than none...I guess you just don't get that!!!! I just don't get you pilots at all!!!! :down:
QA4Jet-A
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May I step in lightly here and give an observation to both of your complaints? Of course, I am the enemy so any Flames back will be met by a dugout and Flame retardent substance..... My first thought is.... The Pilot Group has already taken it in the shorts. Why should they take more? B/C Delta upper Mgmt says so? In looking at that scenerio, what has Delta upper Mgmt agreed to give up? Nothing that I have read about. All we read about is.... "Give it back"! Sorry, if Delta's Mgmt was so damned good, why are they in this position? Simple, mis-management! It doesn't take a NASA employee to figure that one out. For the Pilot group to give up more is bowing down to greed.... any way you look at it. For the rest of the employees, it's simply a matter of your own Management to get their act together! Period ! Same thing.... Your former Leadership has blown this bigtime and now it comes down to the Gauntlet. You can blame the LCC's all you want 12 but I'll never buy into that. It's not the LCC's problem YOUR airline did not see this coming and did not adapt sooner to an ever changing Business enviornment. It slays me 12, that you still state that the LCCs have added "way to much capacity and tanked yeilds". Interestingly enough, the LCC's planes are flying mostly profitable <less Fuel costs> with capacity, and your airplanes are capable of the same, if your Business structure would improve. Even Luv stated in a previous post,,, LF was 85%.
Once again, from the sidelines, it's better for all of you to remain joined as a Family and Voice your opinion to the ones that will make it count. YOUR Upper Mgmt! Not against each other. If they won't listen, than who are you really working for? To borrow from "CoolFlyingFool"... Just my thoughts....
Sounds like the real story behind CH12 is now revealed. He's very willing for someone else to give up their salary to save his job and livelyhood. Typical response from most Americans. Instead of complaining about the lack of interest in the working class by the government, they'd rather see their fellow workers take it up the shorts for their own benefit, not realizing what goes around, comes around. Seems to me the Delta pilots have now figured this out since a few other carriers just didn't 'go away.' It would be nice to see at least someone stand up against the suits who are stealing every last dime out of corporate America.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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===========================================================
Ch.12,
"Lets talk REALITY HERE.(NOT "stickers, flight bags or uniforms')
DALPA just THREW the BALL back into DL's court.
It could'nt BE any clearer !!
Dalpa has told "DL"(NOT YOU, or your co-workers), that "IF you void our contract, that "95%" of our members have AUTHORIZED us to strike the Airline"
So NOW what does "DL" do ???
Does "DL" call DALPA's bluff, therefore risking a Strike, or do they get the extra $175 Million, from YOU and your co-workers ??(DL wants $325M, DALPA offered $150M, leaving $175M to be "made up" from other sources !
A strike is the "SECOND" action to possibly occur.
Throwing DALPA's Contract OUT IS THE "FIRST" ACTION TO OCCUR.
Therefore, if YOU and 49,99"8" people LOSE their jobs, put the BLAME on the entity that "Fired the FIRST SHOT", namely DELTA AIRLINES.
It would be one thing, if DL did'nt have anymore options, BUT they do !! They can TAKE MORE money from the "NON-UNION" people.
Since your group repeatedly REJECTED UNIONISM, then DALPA DOES'NT OWE YOU "ANYTHING" (Period, case closed) !!!!!
DALPA is the equivalentof ...."AN APPLE"
Everyone else................." AN ORANGE"
You and I know, THAT YOU CAN'T MIX "APPLES and ORANGES" !!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
Au contraire. I HAVE taken my cuts...twice...and w/o a major pay increase in the middle of all of that. The pilots claim that they have already taken cuts but they haven't b/c they took and enourmous increase not long ago. Nice try. Speak of something you know about. You apparently don't know what is going on at DL if you think that the pilots have sacraficed so much and the others not at all. At least Luv2fly can speak intelligently and from experience (even if we don't see eye to eye...I have respect for him as he has a grasp of the history behind the situation).
And you apparently don't realize that there are strong economic forces acting against the airline industry. Perhaps you work in the oil industry and don't have a clue what happens in a harsh economic environment?
QA4Jet-A-
It's not that I have a flame retardant substance...I welcome the arguments...I just haven't been convinced by any of them b/c most that I have seen have been narrow-minded and haven't really taken all factors into account.
My first thought is.... The Pilot Group has already taken it in the shorts. Why should they take more? B/C Delta upper Mgmt says so?
B/C this is an issue of not just the typcial cyclical trends. This industry has been hit hard by forces (outside of fuel and 9/11) that have completely changed the economic environment, led to lower yields, and created a need for lower unit costs.
In looking at that scenerio, what has Delta upper Mgmt agreed to give up? Nothing that I have read about. All we read about is.... "Give it back"! Sorry, if Delta's Mgmt was so damned good, why are they in this position? Simple, mis-management!
I'm not siding with mgmt and saying they are wonderful. I will say that they "gave up" some $$ recently but I'm sure they will make up for it. I will say, though, that it is the past mgmt that you can blame for getting to this situation. Whatever salaries they make, I do have confidence (though aren't as gleeful as WT) that THIS mgmt is well suited and has demonstrated an aptitude for trying to turn this company around. They have noticed that BOTH revenue must go up and costs must go down. That may hurt but it's the truth.
For the Pilot group to give up more is bowing down to greed.... any way you look at it.
You know as well as I that the greed argument can go to both sides. The rest of the employees have taken cuts w/o having had a huge pay increase recently to cushion those cuts.
You can blame the LCC's all you want 12 but I'll never buy into that. It's not the LCC's problem YOUR airline did not see this coming and did not adapt sooner to an ever changing Business enviornment. It slays me 12, that you still state that the LCCs have added "way to much capacity and tanked yeilds". Interestingly enough, the LCC's planes are flying mostly profitable <less Fuel costs> with capacity, and your airplanes are capable of the same, if your Business structure would improve. Even Luv stated in a previous post,,, LF was 85%.
LCCs have created the overcapacity issue...there is no denying that. Look to the B6 boards for the data that I have posted. During the last 5 years, the legacies have greatly reduced capacity while carriers such as B6, FL, and WN have increased it even more. I will commend WN b/c they tend to not diminish yields when they enter a market, FL sometimes does, sometimes doesn't, and B6 seems to aim to lower yields to compete on fares. Unfortunately, guess who added the most ASMs to the entire domestic system in the past 5 years...
Once again, from the sidelines, it's better for all of you to remain joined as a Family and Voice your opinion to the ones that will make it count. YOUR Upper Mgmt! Not against each other. If they won't listen, than who are you really working for? To borrow from "CoolFlyingFool"... Just my thoughts....
I do agree that it would be good for ALL of us to get back to the family spirit that has been above-and-beyond at DL in the past. The rest I don't agree with. One has to know when to fight a fight and one has to put pride and ignorance aside and view the entire scenario. That scenario is that yields are down permanently since the internet has come about b/c it has created fare transparency. So why fight a fight to keep costs high? Anyone with an ounce of business sense would know that isn't smart. So yes...let's get back to the DL Spirit but let's also not pretend to ignore the real market forces out there.
And NHBB- I really don't have much response for you anymore. Your constant argument is that pilots won't cave so the rest of us invalids must take the hit. What you don't get is that the rest of us invalids are the only ones that get that airline economics must change and since the revenue side has changed, so must the cost side. This isn't about pride, membership, or greed. It is about sound business. I didn't like taking my paycuts but I UNDERSTOOD them.
It's not that I have a flame retardant substance...I welcome the arguments...I just haven't been convinced by any of them b/c most that I have seen have been narrow-minded and haven't really taken all factors into account.
My first thought is.... The Pilot Group has already taken it in the shorts. Why should they take more? B/C Delta upper Mgmt says so?
B/C this is an issue of not just the typcial cyclical trends. This industry has been hit hard by forces (outside of fuel and 9/11) that have completely changed the economic environment, led to lower yields, and created a need for lower unit costs.
In looking at that scenerio, what has Delta upper Mgmt agreed to give up? Nothing that I have read about. All we read about is.... "Give it back"! Sorry, if Delta's Mgmt was so damned good, why are they in this position? Simple, mis-management!
I'm not siding with mgmt and saying they are wonderful. I will say that they "gave up" some $$ recently but I'm sure they will make up for it. I will say, though, that it is the past mgmt that you can blame for getting to this situation. Whatever salaries they make, I do have confidence (though aren't as gleeful as WT) that THIS mgmt is well suited and has demonstrated an aptitude for trying to turn this company around. They have noticed that BOTH revenue must go up and costs must go down. That may hurt but it's the truth.
For the Pilot group to give up more is bowing down to greed.... any way you look at it.
You know as well as I that the greed argument can go to both sides. The rest of the employees have taken cuts w/o having had a huge pay increase recently to cushion those cuts.
You can blame the LCC's all you want 12 but I'll never buy into that. It's not the LCC's problem YOUR airline did not see this coming and did not adapt sooner to an ever changing Business enviornment. It slays me 12, that you still state that the LCCs have added "way to much capacity and tanked yeilds". Interestingly enough, the LCC's planes are flying mostly profitable <less Fuel costs> with capacity, and your airplanes are capable of the same, if your Business structure would improve. Even Luv stated in a previous post,,, LF was 85%.
LCCs have created the overcapacity issue...there is no denying that. Look to the B6 boards for the data that I have posted. During the last 5 years, the legacies have greatly reduced capacity while carriers such as B6, FL, and WN have increased it even more. I will commend WN b/c they tend to not diminish yields when they enter a market, FL sometimes does, sometimes doesn't, and B6 seems to aim to lower yields to compete on fares. Unfortunately, guess who added the most ASMs to the entire domestic system in the past 5 years...
Once again, from the sidelines, it's better for all of you to remain joined as a Family and Voice your opinion to the ones that will make it count. YOUR Upper Mgmt! Not against each other. If they won't listen, than who are you really working for? To borrow from "CoolFlyingFool"... Just my thoughts....
I do agree that it would be good for ALL of us to get back to the family spirit that has been above-and-beyond at DL in the past. The rest I don't agree with. One has to know when to fight a fight and one has to put pride and ignorance aside and view the entire scenario. That scenario is that yields are down permanently since the internet has come about b/c it has created fare transparency. So why fight a fight to keep costs high? Anyone with an ounce of business sense would know that isn't smart. So yes...let's get back to the DL Spirit but let's also not pretend to ignore the real market forces out there.
And NHBB- I really don't have much response for you anymore. Your constant argument is that pilots won't cave so the rest of us invalids must take the hit. What you don't get is that the rest of us invalids are the only ones that get that airline economics must change and since the revenue side has changed, so must the cost side. This isn't about pride, membership, or greed. It is about sound business. I didn't like taking my paycuts but I UNDERSTOOD them.
TheDog2004
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Yes, Delta is going to call DALPA's bluff. The board is A-A-K and Delta has AA while DALPA has 7-2 os hoping for a fold. The problem is Delta has the nuts and DALPA is too stupid to realize it. You'd think they would have learned SOMETHING from the amatuerish display by AMFA at Northwest.
767jetz
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But the question remains, why is the industry struggling. Is it really the "high" wages?
Perhaps it is the high management compensation, or their retirement perks. Or perhaps it is the fact that the industry has been saddled with a disproportionately high bill for security. Or perhaps there is too much tax built into the cost of a ticket. Or perhaps the public is just too spoiled with fares that are far below pre- 9/11 fares, and airlines are simply not charging enough for the product.
Perhaps it's time to start looking more at the revenue side and less at the labor cost side.
aislehopper
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What? You don't have fruit salad up there in the North?
Moving along to other issues,
IMHO, if DALPA agrees to management's proposal and time shows that management asked much more than it needed, the next contract will allow DALPA to correct the rates/rules. At least they will still be working for a viable Delta.
On a side note, I have a lot of respect for our pilots. I feel that they are worth every penny of whatever rate they make. However, when I see them walking in circles like a bunch of poorly educated meat packers, I think it hurts the public perception of their skills and lowers respect for their profession.
Yes...there are several cost and revenue issues to consider. DL has already and continues to hit the other controllable costs significantly. They have also improved revenue (which...it is quite a tired argument to say that airlines just decided to lower fares rather than taking real economic factors such as a rapid changes in technology making fares MUCH more transparent than ever before (i.e. you are guaranteed to always sell the lowest fares unlike in the past)...oh...and don't forget how airline consumer's have a very high price elasticity therefore demand fluctuates greatly on small price changes) significantly over the past couple of months so I'd say the only major area left is the largest piece of DL's compensation pie. 5,000 pilots making 6 figures each makes up alot more $$ than a couple of dozen overpaid execs making 2 times what the pilots do.
