Do You Know? Under Amfa!

[Checking it Out]

Do you know? Under AMFA you will not have a vote for a National Position until 2008?

Convention held first week in May 2004 article 5, section 1
Member must be in good standing for 2 years, article 4 section 2
To be eligible, local will nominate one candidate for each position article 4 section 3
Officers take office in October after the convention.

Do you know? Under Amfa, American Airlines members will be the largest group and have absolutely no control in the decision making at the National level until the convention in 2008. 5 years from now!

Do you know? All these positions are created to control you!
National Director-National Administrator-National Legal Department
Assistant National Director
National Secretary
National Treasurer
National Safety and Standards Director
Regional Directors (3)
Airline Technical Division Coordinator
General Aviation Technical Division Coordinator
Industrial Safety Coordinator
Maintenance Standards Coordinator
Airline Contract Administration Coordinator ----
This is where American Airlines employees will fall
Your control starts here for representation under Amfa!!!
No possible input until 2008!
Will only exist after the locals are setup and a vote is taken to create this position at each airline with restrictions.

Do you know even after 2008 you will still have no say on the National Executive Council unless you can manage to elect a member to one of these positions?

National Executive Council Article 3 Section 1
National Director
Assistant National Director
National Secretary
National Treasurer
Safety and Standards Director
Three Regional Directors

Please explain why YOU would give up control under the TWU to have NO control under AMFA?

 

[RV4]

What year did you say I would have a vote for any International Union Officer under the TWU?

CAN YOU SAY .... :angry: NEVER? :angry:

You have alot of nerve using issues that your own union never allows in the first place.

:unsure: Where did they teach you that method of defending your union?...

...AT TUNNEL VISION CLASS FOR BLIND?

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

[

...AT TUNNEL VISION CLASS FOR BLIND?

What year did you say I would have a vote for any International Union Officer under the TWU?

CAN YOU SAY .... NEVER?

You have alot of nerve using issues that your own union never allows in the first place.

Where did they teach you that method of defending your union?...



WHOA Dave, Maybe Im wrong, but isnt that the platform AMFA is taking to secure votes with the AA workforce? Accusing CIO of having alot of nerve using issues that supporters/organizers of AMFA have preached to us on these message Boards, informational boards, now we find, that no member of AA will have a say in contract negotiations or convention matters?
What other information will the AA workforce uncover between now and, if there is an election?

 

[Boomer]

Funny,
I may have to wait until 2008 to cast a vote for OR against Del, but, I also have to wait until 2008 before the CURRENT BS TWU Negotiated CONTRACT becomes amendable, the one that UNELECTED LITTLE, YINGST & GLESS Negotiated behind closed doors.

While I am waiting for both events, several facts presented themselves:

1) I have never had the chance to vote directly for Hall, Kerrigan, the late Mr. McAnn, Little, Yingst or Gless and under the TWU, I NEVER WILL.

2) I have never had the chance to sign a recall petition for Little, Yingst, Gless, Hall or Kerrigan and under the TWU, I NEVER WILL.

3) I have never had the chance to be represented by a Union totally directed towards those in My CLASS & CRAFT, and under the TWU, I NEVER WILL.

4) I HAVE HAD the chance to belong to a Union that leads the whole Industry Downward. and under the TWU I ALWAYS WILL.

An old timer once told me about the TWU and how they think. He said that the TWU regards all work done on the property as belonging to the TWU...he also said that the TWU regards all work done on the property as belonging to any TWU Member, not any particular Contract Group.

At least he was honest, and under the TWU, They will never be.

 

[MCI AFL-CIO]

Boomer, great reply. Im not questioning what you or Dave said, What Im questioning is, One of the factors in voting for AMFA is that the membership have a say? Now, Thanks to CIO'S post, the truth may be coming out? That the members wont have a vote of say in contract talks or a voice at the convention if we do elect AMFA. Is this true?




I may have to wait until 2008 to cast a vote for OR against Del, but, I also have to wait until 2008 before the CURRENT BS TWU Negotiated CONTRACT becomes amendable, the one that UNELECTED LITTLE, YINGST & GLESS Negotiated behind closed doors.

At least in 2008, membership will have say with TWU, thru our locals E Board. Also, the membership voted the concession package, it wasnt forced on us


1) I have never had the chance to vote directly for Hall, Kerrigan, the late Mr. McAnn, Little, Yingst or Gless and under the TWU, I NEVER WILL.

It is funny............We will never have the chance to vote for Delle either, same as you say tha tyou never voted for the TWU leaders. and we never will have the opportunity to vote out Delle, oh I hear it said members can anytime they want, but when was the last time he was voted out? NEVER



2) I have never had the chance to sign a recall petition for Little, Yingst, Gless, Hall or Kerrigan and under the TWU, I NEVER WILL.



I beleive if enough members were to sign a petition, you could recall anyone, The same is said about AMFA too, you say with TWU we cant, I say with AMFA........SHOW ME




I HAVE HAD the chance to belong to a Union that leads the whole Industry Downward. and under the TWU I ALWAYS WILL




Before NW, explain AMFA's structure, wages, benefits with the airline they represented? Where did they stand per guidelines established by TWU represented smaller airlines, comparable to AMFA represented airline?




TWU regards all work done on the property as belonging to any TWU Member, not any particular Contract Group.


Whats wrong with this? All employee work for AA are TWU members?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Do you know that under the TWU you will never elect any INTERNATIONAL OFFICER or be able to recall them either? This is because the TWU constitution is based on COMMUNISM! If you don't believe me, take a trip to NEW YORK and visit the TWU's headquarters. Inside you will find a museum filled with communist posters,books, and other paraphenalia from the TWU's early days under MIKE(DRIPPY?) QUILL. Mr. QUILL and his TWU associates were known communists!
I can't believe anybody can still support the communist based TWU!

 

[wrx]

This is off the topic, but I thought I would share it with you.


It's nice to still know that there is actually a union with Officers that will not sell out their membership. The UFCW in Southern California, is on STRIKE! Fighting for their medical benefits and job security. Maybe the APFA, APA and TWU National Officers can learn something from the tough sons of %$@%&#$ at UFCW.

 

[Timid Weak Union]

Hey checking it out you better check in to a clinic for the mentally disabled!!
I have 20 years with TWscrew and never voted for any international scumbags.
Can't vote them in and surely can't vote them out. Just like the commies and nazies................we will look out for your best interest....trust us!!!!
DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO!!! Twu should change its emblem back to the red hammer and sicle or the black swastica!!!
FIRE THE TWU NOW!!! LETS GET A REAL DEMOCRATIC PROFESSIONAL UNION!!

 

[RUM@AA]

Do you know? Under AMFA you will not have a vote for a National Position until 2008?

Convention held first week in May 2004 article 5, section 1
Member must be in good standing for 2 years, article 4 section 2
To be eligible, local will nominate one candidate for each position article 4 section 3
Officers take office in October after the convention.

Do you know? Under Amfa, American Airlines members will be the largest group and have absolutely no control in the decision making at the National level until the convention in 2008. 5 years from now!

Do you know? All these positions are created to control you!
National Director-National Administrator-National Legal Department
Assistant National Director
National Secretary
National Treasurer
National Safety and Standards Director
Regional Directors (3)
Airline Technical Division Coordinator
General Aviation Technical Division Coordinator
Industrial Safety Coordinator
Maintenance Standards Coordinator
Airline Contract Administration Coordinator ----
This is where American Airlines employees will fall
Your control starts here for representation under Amfa!!!
No possible input until 2008!
Will only exist after the locals are setup and a vote is taken to create this position at each airline with restrictions.

Do you know even after 2008 you will still have no say on the National Executive Council unless you can manage to elect a member to one of these positions?

National Executive Council Article 3 Section 1
National Director
Assistant National Director
National Secretary
National Treasurer
Safety and Standards Director
Three Regional Directors

Please explain why YOU would give up control under the TWU to have NO control under AMFA?

Control under the TWU? Are you nuts? Even if members did sign petitions, the Local E-Board and/or the International Executive Council must approve of the charges before anyone gets recalled. Can you spell "GOOD OLE BOY NETWORK"??

At least it sounds like you're coming to grips with the reality that we will likely call for an election soon.

Good bye, dip-s##t.

 

[Buck]

I am a member of AMFA at American Airlines and have voted in several officer elections. I pay dues to AMFA and they give me rights as a member. However when I have my dues extorted by the TWU for other than representation, I lose any rights to participate. Yes it would seem that you can be a member of AMFA right now and vote in their elections.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Fact: The 2 year clause is waived for new airlines, just ask the other airlines in the past.

 

[Checking it Out]

boomer wrote,may have to wait until 2008 to cast a vote for OR against Del, but, I also have to wait until 2008 before the CURRENT BS TWU Negotiated CONTRACT becomes amendable, the one that UNELECTED LITTLE, YINGST & GLESS Negotiated behind closed doors.


I was under the impression our contract becomes amendable in 2006, silly me.

TWU convention 2005, All officers will be voted on at that time from the convention delegates who the members elect to participate.

It only takes one vote to recall an officer and conduct a trial, At Amfa it takes considerably more and is virtually impossible to replace someone in office.

Just think! you will pay 4+ years of dues without any control under amfa????

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I was under the impression our contract becomes amendable in 2006, silly me.


CIO, even you, being as big a moron as humanly possible, know that in 2006 the contract is NOT amendable. It can be OPENED. But all the company has to say is, "No.".

By the way. When do I get to vote for little, gless, yingst?

 

[Bob Owens]

boomer wrote,may have to wait until 2008 to cast a vote for OR against Del, but, I also have to wait until 2008 before the CURRENT BS TWU Negotiated CONTRACT becomes amendable, the one that UNELECTED LITTLE, YINGST & GLESS Negotiated behind closed doors.


I was under the impression our contract becomes amendable in 2006, silly me.

TWU convention 2005, All officers will be voted on at that time from the convention delegates who the members elect to participate.

It only takes one vote to recall an officer and conduct a trial, At Amfa it takes considerably more and is virtually impossible to replace someone in office.

Just think! you will pay 4+ years of dues without any control under amfa????

What happened to the charges that Gary Santos levied against several International Officers? Actually several persons levied charges against International officers that were summarily dismissed, without trial.

Tell the members how the trial committee is made up of Sonny Halls appointees who serve solely at Sonnys discretion. So if Sonny accuses, they are guilty, kind of like Stalinism.

Tell the members how the accused dont even have the right to face their accuser. Sonny Hall refused to testify in my trial.

Come on CIO why do you lie so much? Are you hoping to slide into Jims Office? Have you already tried out his chair?

You know that the Convention was a farce, the way Sonny, in violation of the rules put out letters calling Local 100's leadership "Friends of Bin Laden", the letter that his Communist turned Fascist buddy Rojer Taust wrote up? When the whole thing looked like it was going to backfire Sonny promised to "deal with" the persons responsible. So exactly how did Sonny deal with Roger Taust and Mike Bakala?

Did you ask Taust about his dinner with the two mechanics from DCA who ripped him a new @$$? "Er, er, pluck, pluck, I got to go" as he bailed out when it got too hot.

What about how Sonny called the shots and determined by his sole discretion if motions passed or failed? You call that democracy?

"All for say Aye" "All against say Aye", "the Ayes have it" (from the floor-Which Ayes?) "Well when you get up here then you can determine which ayes" (in other words which ever one that I say)

This is the actual way that Sonny tried to run the Convention, this was the very first vote, if not for Local 100 the whole Convention would have went this way.)

Will I be able to go to the Convention in 2005? I recieved nearly 70% of the votes in a three way race but the members can not choose me can they? So only those who are loyal to Sonny can go and cast votes for Sonny. So can the members choose who goes to the Convention or are only Representatives that Sonny allows to remain in office and approves of allowed to go to the Convention?

You can play with the facts all you like but over 50% of the members have already signed cards because they want to get rid of you crooks.


With AMFA the members get to vote directly for their officers, not through people that the International approves of.

You are right about one thing, it only takes one person to recall any officer and conduct a "trial" and that one person is Sonny Hall.

I have already paid 17+ years without any control whatsoever over to a union that has no regard for my profession. I have watched as we have lost just about everything that unions claim to get for their members and how our pay has plummeted for over 20 years. The only upsurge in 20 years was the result of the AMFA NWA contract. What exactly do we have to lose by going with AMFA execpt the priviledge of allowing Jim Little to alter and put in effect our agreement "without further ratification"?

With AMFA I could start a recall drive with Constitutional rights to recall.
With the TWU I have no Constitutional right to recall any officer, nor do any local officers have any rights to oppose the International because as you brought up in my trial the oath of officers includes loyalty to the International above the members. So in effect, any delegate who votes against the International at the Convention, technically is violating his oath.

So in the TWU there is no Democracy because any view put forth by any sworn in elected officer that is contradictory to the Internationals view puts that officer in violation of his oath. Once a local membership chooses a leader that leader is forced to take an oath that seperates him from the people he represents and become subserviant to the International, the International thats elected by officers who have sworn an oath, not to the members, but to that same International.

 

[Bob Owens]

I may have to wait until 2008 to cast a vote for OR against Del, but, I also have to wait until 2008 before the CURRENT BS TWU Negotiated CONTRACT becomes amendable, the one that UNELECTED LITTLE, YINGST & GLESS Negotiated behind closed doors.

Boomer;

You would not have to wait till 2008. Delle can be recalled at ANY time if the members feel that he is not doing his job right. You can choose to wait till 2008 or can can start a recall.

This fact keeps elected leaders on their toes and forces them to act in the members interests even if it conflicts with what is financially better for the Institution.

Since entering into office Sonny Hall systematically has been working to eliminate potential rivals. This fact has been mentioned by a Federal Judge in a ruling against Sonny Hall. Whether its working wityh the employers to have opponents fired as in the case of Rojer Toussaint and Jack Sullivan of Local 501, simply making up charges and hand picking his judges to remove officers in the case of Local 562 or usurping the bylaws of a local in order to shift more power to an ally as in Local 234. Sonny Hall is a Dictator, a tryant, a despot, a totalitarian, he is anything but a democrat, republican or any other term describing an advocate of democracy or republican theories of Democracy. Our structure and Constitution ensures that the only way Sonny will ever be removed is by "Death or Indictment".