Do You Want To Re- Elect Bush For Presendent!

[A10Pilot]

So even though the republicans screwed the military voters in democratic counties in florida, its ok cause they didnt CELEBRATE?

I dont remember anyone celebrating while counting ballots, maybe the liberal media hid that....

The republicans did not screw military voters - that is so beyond the pale it is laughable.

The democrats made it OFFICIAL POLICY, including details in a memo, to void as many military votes as possible!

And yes, the liberal press did not report the celebrations, nor quote the horrid remarks made by the democrat operatives.

This is an exerpt from the Washington Times (Bill Sammon
THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published 5/8/01):

**************************************
In this second of three excerpts, he details how the Gore legal team plotted to throw out the votes of Florida servicemen and women serving overseas.

Navy Lt. John Russell was awakened at 3:30 a.m. by the night duty officer aboard the USS Tarawa, an amphibious assault ship sent to help retrieve the terrorist-crippled destroyer USS Cole off the coast of Yemen.
As he crawled out of his bunk in the wee hours that Saturday, Nov. 18, Lt. Russell was startled to hear that his wife, Mary, was on the phone.
The duty officer had tried to tell Mary Russell that her husband was sleeping, but she insisted he be awakened. She had used the emergency number given to spouses of sailors. Something major must be wrong back home in Jacksonville, Fla.
Lt. Russell, 40, was disoriented when he heard his wife´s voice. The Tarawa was 8,000 miles from Jacksonville, and the connection had a distracting voice delay.
Mrs. Russell explained that she had just gotten home when she received a phone call from a woman at the Duval County elections office who said her husband´s absentee ballot in the presidential election had been disqualified at the urging of Democratic lawyers on behalf of Vice President Al Gore, the party´s presidential nominee.

A few minutes later, Mrs. Russell told her husband, she got a call from a man with the Republican Party. He confirmed that Lt. Russell´s ballot had been disqualified -- along with hundreds of others that the Democrats had protested.

"I was hot," Lt. Russell recalls. "Here I am, deployed overseas. I´ve done everything I can to cast my ballot properly. And I find out my vote doesn´t count because of a lousy postmark -- even though they received it before Election Day."
John Russell is one of those rare Navy officers who came up through the ranks of enlisted men. Ten years and three months it had taken him to earn his commission.

In early November, Lt. Russell was in the midst of a six-month deployment to the Western Pacific and Indian Ocean aboard the Tarawa, which he calls "40,000 tons of twisted steel and sex appeal."
The unexpected detour to Yemen -- after the terrorist bomb blew 17 fellow sailors on the Cole to bits -- was just part of the job to this career Navy man. In fact, when his assault ship arrived on the scene, Lt. Russell volunteered to man a tugboat that eased the crippled Cole out of the harbor to safety.
Such unpredictability had a lot to do with the appeal of the armed services. Lt. Russell never knew exactly where he was headed next. That´s why he had made a point of voting for president so early.
He had arranged for the Duval County elections office to send him an absentee ballot. It arrived Oct. 1, in a batch of mail delivered by truck on the Tarawa´s last day docked at a Thailand port. By the time he opened the ballot, the Tarawa was steaming through the Indian Ocean toward the Arabian Sea.
"One of the things I´ve learned when you´re deployed overseas is the time it takes the mail to get back," Lt. Russell says. "I don´t care how quickly you throw it in the mailbox. It can take up to 30 days to get back to the States. So as soon as I got my absentee ballot, I got it witnessed [and] dated, and threw it back in the mailbox."
Helicopters often must chase down Navy ships to pick up and deliver mail. A chopper caught up with the Tarawa in the Middle East about a week after Lt. Russell dropped off his absentee ballot with the ship´s postal clerk.
The ballot, along with the rest of the ship´s mail, was choppered north across the Arabian peninsula to the tiny Persian Gulf archipelago of Bahrain. From there it was loaded aboard a military transport plane and flown to the United States, where it was dumped into the civilian postal system on the East Coast and made its way south to Florida.
Lt. Russell´s ballot arrived at the Duval County elections office Nov. 6, the day before the election -- right about the time he was helping play host to the grief-stricken sailors of the Cole and allowing investigators to take over his office on the Tarawa.

Challenging every vote
The Gore lawyers protested ballots on which the return address of the attesting witness was incomplete. They railed against ballots on which foreign postmarks were smudged or partially illegible.
"Our goal was to challenge every vote that didn´t appear legitimate," says Mike Langton, Gore campaign chairman for northeast Florida.
By 7 p.m., the Democrats had lodged protests against 147 absentee ballots. The canvassing board agreed to hear formal arguments from the Gore and Bush camps.
Circuit Judge Brent Shore, chairman of the Duval County Canvassing Board, expressed incredulity at the tactics of Gore lawyer Leslie Goller, who went first. It was Judge Shore´s 27th wedding anniversary, and he had promised to take his wife to dinner. Now it looked as though he would spend the rest of the night listening to Democratic objections.
"I want to make sure that I understand your position," Judge Shore told Ms. Goller. "As I understand your position, if a service person in Germany avails himself or herself to free postage through the military, provides the absentee ballot on or before November 7th to be mailed in the normal course of through the military postal system, or otherwise, and they get the free postage, if that absentee ballot envelope --probably unbeknown to the person who mailed it -- does not bear a postmark on it, even though it´s otherwise proper, your position is that is an invalid ballot and we should not consider it. Is that correct?"
"That is our position," Ms. Goller replied.
Judge Shore and the other board members spent the next three hours examining the 147 ballots the Gore lawyers wanted to throw out. This was followed by hour after hour of wrangling, bad pizza and stale coffee.
At 4:11 a.m. -- more than 19 hours after it began -- the nightmarish battle over Duval´s military ballots came to an end. Duval was the last of Florida´s 67 counties to complete the arduous task. When the canvassing board announced that the ballots of 149 soldiers, sailors and airmen had been disqualified, a pair of jubilant Gore lawyers exchanged high-fives.
A Republican, visibly shaken by this sight, demanded to know how they could celebrate the disenfranchisement of U.S. military personnel risking their lives around the world. One of the Gore lawyers glibly replied: "A win´s a win."

**********************************

A10 Pilot

 

[mweiss]

I would call the Washington Post far from being in bed with the White House.

Ya know, until recently I would have found that to be laughable, too. But a funny thing happened after the recent management change there...their editorial page made a significant lurch to the right.

'Course, something significant happened right before the full recount was finished. Some guys commandeered a few airplanes and flew them into buildings. Other things were deemed more worthy of the front page at the time.

 

[mweiss]

A10, just so we're clear, I no more support disqualifying military votes simply because they're more likely to have voted Republican than I support disqualifying civilian votes simply because they're more likely to have voted Democrat.

At the end of the day, one thing remains abundantly clear: more Floridians left their polling places thinking they voted for Gore than thinking they voted for Bush.

And, lest you conclude I'm a partisan hack, I'll point out that the 1960 election was pretty clearly stolen by Kennedy.

I wonder what our nation would have been like had Nixon become President eight years earlier. Would we have ended up supporting Ho Chi Minh instead of France, which would have served to not only save many American and Vietnamese lives, but also avert the shift of Vietnam to communism? Would Nixon have bungled the Cuban missile crisis? Would he have not bungled the Bay of Pigs? We'll never know.

 

[sentrido]

The republicans did not screw military voters - that is so beyond the pale it is laughable.

I respect your right ot your opinion here, but I have read otherwise.

Im not defending (or denying) what happened. Im just pointing out that its pretty naive to think it doesnt go both ways.

As for the two lawyers high fiving themselves, what do you expect from lawyers?

Im surprised they knew whose ballots got disqualified, isnt that supposed to be private or something?

 

[KCFlyer]

I wonder what our nation would have been like had Nixon become President eight years earlier. Would we have ended up supporting Ho Chi Minh instead of France, which would have served to not only save many American and Vietnamese lives, but also avert the shift of Vietnam to communism? Would Nixon have bungled the Cuban missile crisis? Would he have not bungled the Bay of Pigs? We'll never know.

Perhaps not, but the history books I've read said that Ike was the President who initially sent US soldiers to Vietnam...If Nixon were elected, I have an idea we would have seen a continuation of that...much as it occured under Kennedy.

 

[mweiss]

...the history books I've read said that Ike was the President who initially sent US soldiers to Vietnam...

Ahh, that's right. I forgot that it started that early.

 

[delldude]

>"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
>develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
>is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
>
>"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
>want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
>destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
>
>Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
>here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
>chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
>security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
>
>"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time
>since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb
>18,1998
>
>"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US
>Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
>appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
>effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
>mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens.
>Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct.
>9,1998
>
>"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
>destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
>has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi
>(D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
>
>"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
>destruction and palaces for his cronies." > - Madeline Albright, Clinton
>Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
>
>"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
>programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
>continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
>continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of
>a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
>the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by
>Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
>
>"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat
>to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of
>the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
>means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
>
>"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
>weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
>"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
>deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is
>in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
>
>"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
>weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
>
>"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
>confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
>biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
>build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
>reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd
>(D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
>
>"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
>to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe
>that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real
>and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct.
>9,2002
>
>"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
>to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
>next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated
>the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
>destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
>
>"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
>every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
>destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This
>he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
>
>"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
>that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
>weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
>has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al
>Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
>Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
>chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen.
>Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
>
>"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
>Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
>the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob
>Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
>
>"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
>murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
>particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
>miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
>continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
>.. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
>real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
>
>SO NOW EVERY ONE OF THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED--THAT
>THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR
>UNNECESSARILY!

 

[KCFlyer]

>SO NOW EVERY ONE OF THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED--THAT
>THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR
>UNNECESSARILY!

What was necessary about this war? Saddam "coulda" developed WMD's to use against us. So could North Korea, but apparently their skin wasn't dark enough to justify them as "terrorists", so we put them on the back burner. But Iraq appealed to enough of the "redneck" inside us ("kill an A-rab...any A-rab to show them that the US of A won't be pushed around" or the ever popular "turn them into a glass parking lot").

Apparently, something must have been done by the Clinton administration to impact the WMD programs over in Iraq....we haven't found them there, and Bush has now resorted to joking about them while looking under a sofa. And the only weapon of mass destruction that has been used on the soil of the USA are Boeing jets. Which Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with. Now...with "mission accomplished" scheduled in just 3 short months, Bush might do more to GROW the terrorism he claims to be fighting. How do you think it will go over in the Arab world...bomb a country into near oblivion, rebuild their power plants in a humanitarian gesture, then pull out and allow a civil war to break out. Betcha the terrorist recruiting office will have a line around the block.

FWIW, I consider myself a conservative, but I refused to vote for Bush in the last election - primarily because I was disgusted by his daddy's actions during the first gulf war. I found the numerous photo's of Bush Sr. fishin' and golfin' while the soldiers in his Army had their lives on the line in Kuwait to be reprehensible. I was afraid it would be "like father, like son". So far, it looks like I was right.

 

[A10Pilot]

What was necessary about this war? Saddam "coulda" developed WMD's to use against us. So could North Korea, but apparently their skin wasn't dark enough to justify them as "terrorists", so we put them on the back burner. But Iraq appealed to enough of the "redneck" inside us ("kill an A-rab...any A-rab to show them that the US of A won't be pushed around" or the ever popular "turn them into a glass parking lot").

Apparently, something must have been done by the Clinton administration to impact the WMD programs over in Iraq....we haven't found them there, and Bush has now resorted to joking about them while looking under a sofa. And the only weapon of mass destruction that has been used on the soil of the USA are Boeing jets. Which Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with. Now...with "mission accomplished" scheduled in just 3 short months, Bush might do more to GROW the terrorism he claims to be fighting. How do you think it will go over in the Arab world...bomb a country into near oblivion, rebuild their power plants in a humanitarian gesture, then pull out and allow a civil war to break out. Betcha the terrorist recruiting office will have a line around the block.

KCFLyer... you have got to be kidding.

Clinton did something to impact WMD programs in Iraq??@??!!? Clinton fiddled while the terrorist threat burned. We were attacked throughout the 90s, here (WTC garage car bombing) and abroad (numerous attacks on American interests including Kobar Towers, USS Cole, US Embassies) and he did nothing. We even had the Sudanese offer Bin Laden to Clinton - more than once! - and he refused.

And talking about playing golf and vacationing... Clinton was attempted to be notified about a strike opportunity against Bin Laden and he was too busy playing golf to be bothered. The opportunity passed. Clinton was too busy being 'serviced' with oral sex and spending time on the phone fantasizing about sex with a barely-legal intern to make the right decision about the Sudanese offer to turn over Bin Laden.

As far as WMD goes: Iraq had KNOWN mass quantities of all kinds of WMD including nerve agents, chemical agents, and biological agents. He USED it on his own people. Are you suggesting he destroyed this mass arsenal of WMD? The earlier post had a laundry list of quotes from all sorts of democrats (including Sen Kerry) DEMANDING action by Clinton to react to the threat posed by Iraq and their WMD.

No - it was there and it was a threat. Hussein harbored terrorists. He had training centers in Iraq - including an aircraft (narrow body sized) static south of Baghdad used for hijack training. He funneled money to Palestinian terrorists and to the families of homicide bombers. He completely destablized the region and was a threat to his neighbors and to us.

You make a pathetic attempt to race bait with your own racist remarks.

This is World War III. It is a Global War on Terror. You and many other Americans just don't see the threat. One day you will wake up and turn on the news and see a nuclear device has killed hundreds of thousands or 1,000,000+ in a major American city and cry 'why didn't we stop this?'. Or you will hear reports of 100s of people dropping like flies in 5 or 6 major US cities - a panic ensues - nobody knows what is going on - and it is the start of a major biological attack that virtually shuts down the US.

We have video of terrorists testing biological agents on animals. They are actively pursuing WMD and intend on using it on us. Hussein's regime had WMD and actively supported terrorists.

To give you an idea of how easy it is to hide WMD and how difficult it is to find:

- We knew of the existence of a squadron of Iraqi MiG fighters and the base they were located. After we toppled Saddam and controlled the country, we were trying to assertain the whereabouts of these MiGs. We searched and searched. These are not barrels. These are not vials. These are large fighter jets. This is not the WHOLE COUNTRY as a search area. This is an area in and around a known military base. It took us OVER THREE MONTHS - but we finally found the jets: buried in the sand near the base.

If you don't think it would be easy to hide barrels of nerve agent and vials of toxins that might evade detection for years or even decades, you are naive. The lack of knowledge of the whereabouts of WMD in Iraq is not proof they weren't there - we already KNEW the WMD was there - AND that it was USED. It should concern you that we find what happened to the WMD and that it is not in the hands of terrorists - not a source of accusation against the Bush Administration that the WMD didn't exist.

A10 Pilot

 

[KCFlyer]

Clinton did something to impact WMD programs in Iraq??@??!!? Clinton fiddled while the terrorist threat burned. We were attacked throughout the 90s, here (WTC garage car bombing) and abroad (numerous attacks on American interests including Kobar Towers, USS Cole, US Embassies) and he did nothing. We even had the Sudanese offer Bin Laden to Clinton - more than once! - and he refused.

Seeing that we've resorted to looking under sofas in the White House to find them, what explanation do you have for our not finding any?

And talking about playing golf and vacationing... Clinton was attempted to be notified about a strike opportunity against Bin Laden and he was too busy playing golf to be bothered. The opportunity passed. Clinton was too busy being 'serviced' with oral sex and spending time on the phone fantasizing about sex with a barely-legal intern to make the right decision about the Sudanese offer to turn over Bin Laden.

And while Bin Laden was hiding out in Afganistan, Bush and cronies decided that Saddam Hussein was the one we should REALLY go after. Don't know if he was getting any blow jobs at the time he was making that decision.

As far as WMD goes: Iraq had KNOWN mass quantities of all kinds of WMD including nerve agents, chemical agents, and biological agents. He USED it on his own people. Are you suggesting he destroyed this mass arsenal of WMD? The earlier post had a laundry list of quotes from all sorts of democrats (including Sen Kerry) DEMANDING action by Clinton to react to the threat posed by Iraq and their WMD

And we're still looking for them (perhaps they're behind the curtains in the Lincoln Bedroom). If he didn't destroy them, then what's your theory on where he put them? Yeah...I think he destroyed them...we've got spy satellites that can spot a camel taking a dump in the desert, but somehow those same satellites can't spot a convoy of trucks hauling away WMD's?

No - it was there and it was a threat. Hussein harbored terrorists. He had training centers in Iraq - including an aircraft (narrow body sized) static south of Baghdad used for hijack training. He funneled money to Palestinian terrorists and to the families of homicide bombers. He completely destablized the region and was a threat to his neighbors and to us.

Odd that none of the 9/11 terrorists had Iraqi ties, isn't it?

This is World War III. It is a Global War on Terror. You and many other Americans just don't see the threat. One day you will wake up and turn on the news and see a nuclear device has killed hundreds of thousands or 1,000,000+ in a major American city and cry 'why didn't we stop this?'. Or you will hear reports of 100s of people dropping like flies in 5 or 6 major US cities - a panic ensues - nobody knows what is going on - and it is the start of a major biological attack that virtually shuts down the US.

I'll agree with you here...it's WW III - it's a shame that it was started by kicking the ass of a leader in a country that didn't have anything to do with the attack on American soil. And it's a shame that the United States dismissed the opinions of many of our (former) allies to wage that war. Kinda makes you wonder whose side they'll be on when phase two of WW III starts up. IMHO, North Korea poses a bigger immediate threat than Iraq ever did...yet they haven't been bombed yet. What will you say if a Korean missle with a nuke on it lands in Seattle?

Bottom line, I think Bush and Co. have taken steps to INCREASE the risk of a chemical, biological or nuclear attack on the USA. Because I still haven't seen a heckuva lot of support from the other Arab nations, other than Kuwait (and I do believe their ability to assist in WW III to be limited at best).

 

[A10Pilot]

Seeing that we've resorted to looking under sofas in the White House to find them, what explanation do you have for our not finding any?

Did you not read about our hunt for the MiG fighters? We searched for MONTHS trying to find planes we knew existed in a VERY LIMITED AREA around the installation the aircraft were based. We finally found them buried in the sand. Now if it took that long to find AIRCRAFT (not barrels or vials) in a limited area, do you not see how hard it is to find his cache of nerve agents, chemical agents, and biological toxins in the ENTIRE COUNTRY????? Why did our spy satellites not tell us the exact location of the MiGs??????

And while Bin Laden was hiding out in Afganistan, Bush and cronies decided that Saddam Hussein was the one we should REALLY go after. Don't know if he was getting any blow jobs at the time he was making that decision.

We went into Afghanistan and removed the Taliban government providing support for Bin Laden. Our A10 unit spent time in Afghanistan. I know INTIMATELY about the hunt for Bin Laden. What do you know about the terrain there? The threat? I am soon to return to Afghanistan to continue the fight and hunt for Bin Laden. So don't tell me we aren't on the hunt.

You can spew your platitudes about 'cronies' all you want. We have been, and CONTINUE to hunt for Bin Laden. We have had a HUGE impact on Al Qaeda's ability to operate. We have captured his chief operations officer - the guy who guided the 9/11 operations. We have captured or killed nearly 2/3 of the known Al Qaeda officers. We have made huge inroads in limiting, confiscating, and hindering their financial abilities. Their operations officer even stated during interrogations that we have dramatically reduced their capabilities. WTH more can we do?

And we're still looking for them (perhaps they're behind the curtains in the Lincoln Bedroom). If he didn't destroy them, then what's your theory on where he put them? Yeah...I think he destroyed them...we've got spy satellites that can spot a camel taking a dump in the desert, but somehow those same satellites can't spot a convoy of trucks hauling away WMD's?

Your ignorance about the capabilities of our ELINT is clear with this statement. Convoy of trucks? There are thousands of trucks moving all over the place all the time. Which ones have the WMD? If they are driving under darkness or under cloud cover, how do you know where they are going? Saddam had a massive underground tunnel system in Baghdad. Do our satellites have X-ray vision? There are other areas in Iraq with large underground structures. There were scientists with botulism generating equipment and toxins IN THEIR HOMES and buried in their gardens.

If you are such an expert on ELINT, did our spy satellites not record the destruction of their WMD?

The WMD was not destroyed by Hussein. If you think that, discussion is pointless. He could have easily demonstrated the destruction if it had occurred. One thing the Iraqis were good at - and that is documentation (you should read the reports I have about the various means by which they documented the torture of their people). The whole point of the inspections was not to find WMD... it was to find proof of their destruction (as demanded by UN Resolutions). He could have showed the destruction had occurred and remained in power. He did not. Which is in perfect keeping with his character and desire for weaponry.

The WMD is either hidden in Iraq or moved to a sympathetic neighbor - likely Syria who was illegally supplying (often French made) military support while I was fighting in Iraq.

Odd that none of the 9/11 terrorists had Iraqi ties, isn't it?

First of all, this is not just about avenging 9/11. It is a GLOBAL War On Terror. It is about going after terrorists and Nations who harbor them or support them. Secondly, even a left wing judge in NY ruled in favor of 9/11 victim's families that Iraq did indeed support the 9/11 terrorists and froze Iraqi assets as part of his ruling.

**************************
Exerpted from the Hudson Institute Report: " Saddam’s Hussein’s Philanthropy of Terror" (just the tip of the iceberg on the ties documented in the report):

Abu Musab al Zarqawi, formerly the director of an al Qaeda training base in Afghanistan, fled to Iraq after being injured as the Taliban fell. He received medical care and convalesced for two months in Baghdad. He then opened an Ansar al Islam terrorist training camp in northern Iraq and arranged the October 2002 assassination of U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman, Jordan.

•Although Iraqi Ramzi Yousef, ringleader of the February 26, 1993, World Trade Center (WTC) bombing plot, fled the United States on Pakistani papers, he came to America on an Iraqi passport.

• As Richard Miniter, author of this year’s bestseller Losing bin Laden, reported on September 25, 2003, on the Tech Central Station web-page, “U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam’s hometown, which shows Iraq gave [al Qaeda member] Mr. [Abdul Rahman] Yasin both a house and a monthly salary.â€

*************************

I'll agree with you here...it's WW III - it's a shame that it was started by kicking the ass of a leader in a country that didn't have anything to do with the attack on American soil. And it's a shame that the United States dismissed the opinions of many of our (former) allies to wage that war. Kinda makes you wonder whose side they'll be on when phase two of WW III starts up. IMHO, North Korea poses a bigger immediate threat than Iraq ever did...yet they haven't been bombed yet. What will you say if a Korean missle with a nuke on it lands in Seattle?

Bottom line, I think Bush and Co. have taken steps to INCREASE the risk of a chemical, biological or nuclear attack on the USA. Because I still haven't seen a heckuva lot of support from the other Arab nations, other than Kuwait (and I do believe their ability to assist in WW III to be limited at best).

North Korea is a threat. But it is a Nation-State that knows it would be obliterated if it attacked us. It has not shown it would be feeding WMD to terrorists, providing training camps in its country for terrorists, providing monetary support for terrorists. It is also a country with no resources. It starves its own people in an attempt to free up assets to build their weaponry. Iraq, on the other hand, has the ability to continue to generate new monies and new threats.

You still do not comprehend the threat we all face. These Islamic radicals believe they will go to nirvana if they can blow up, gas, plague, kill as many Americans as possible. And they are willing to kill themselves when they do it. If you think that a laser pinpoint response to just the terrorists responsible for 9/11 will end this threat you are deluded.

We know they have generated maps of every major American monument/structure of importance (like Golden Gate bridge, all the D.C. monuments, Mt Rushmore, etc = attacking our national heritage), maps of every nuclear power plant / refineries, oil pipelines, power grid points (attacking our energy sources), maps of military installations (ability to project power). We have video and paperwork showing their tests of bio-terror weapons on animals. If we sit back and try to Fortress America we are doomed.


A10 Pilot

 

[A10Pilot]

Odd that none of the 9/11 terrorists had Iraqi ties, isn't it?

More information exerpted from the Hudson Institute Report: " Saddam’s Hussein’s Philanthropy of Terror" It includes the ruling from a Carter appointed judge.


******************************

Saddam Hussein’s Ties to the September 11 Conspiracy

Despite the White House’s inexplicable insistence to the contrary, tantalizing clues suggest that Saddam Hussein’s jaw might not have dropped to the floor when fireballs erupted from the Twin Towers two years ago.

• His Salman Pak terror camp taught terrorists how to hijack passenger jets with cutlery, as noted earlier. (Note: I have seen the intelligence on this facility, have you????)

•On January 5, 2000, Ahmad Hikmat Shakir— an Iraqi VIP facilitator reportedly dispatched from Baghdad’s embassy in Malaysia—greeted Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi at Kuala Lampur’s airport, where he worked. He then escorted them to a local hotel, where these September 11 hijackers met with 9-11 conspirators Ramzi bin al Shibh and Tawfiz al Atash. Five days later, according to Stephen Hayes, Shakir disappeared. He was arrested in Qatar on September 17, 2001, six days after al Midhar and al Hamzi slammed American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon, killing 216 people. Soon after he was apprehended, authorities discovered documents on Shakir’s person and in his apartment connecting him to the 1993 WTC bomb plot and “Operation Bojinka,†al Qaeda’s 1995 plan to blow up 12 jets simultaneously over the Pacific

Although the Bush administration has expressed doubts, the Czech government stands by its claim that September 11 leader Mohamed Atta met in Prague in April 2001 with Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim al Ani, an Iraqi diplomat/intelligence agent. In a February 24 diplomat/intelligence agent. In a February 24 letter to James Beasley Jr., a Philadelphia lawyer who represents the families of two Twin Towers casualties, Czech UN Ambassador Hynek Kmonicek embraced an October 26, 2001, statement by Czech Interior Minister Stanislav Gross:

In this moment we can confirm, that during the next stay of Mr. Muhammad [sic] Atta in the Czech Republic, there was the contact with the official of the Iraqi intelligence, Mr. Al Ani, Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir, who was on 22nd April 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities which were not compatible with the diplomatic statusâ€

Al Ani was expelled two weeks after the suspected meeting with Atta for apparently hostile surveillance of Radio Free Europe’s Prague headquarters. That building also happened to house America’s anti-Baathist station, Radio Free Iraq. The Czech government continues to claim, in short, that the 9-11 mastermind Atta met with at least one Iraqi intelligence official in the months during which the attacks were orchestrated.

•A Clinton-appointed Manhattan federal judge, Harold Baer, ordered Hussein, his ousted regime, Osama bin Laden, and others to pay $104 million in damages to the families of George Eric Smith and Timothy Soulas (clients of Beasley, the aforementioned attorney), both of whom were killed in the Twin Towers along with 2,750 others. “I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, ‘by evidence satisfactory to the court’ that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al Qaeda,†Baer ruled. ...the court found that there was sufficient evidence to tie Saddam Hussein to the September 11 attacks and secure a May 7 federal judgment against him

**************************

A10 Pilot

 

[KCFlyer]

First of all, this is not just about avenging 9/11.

It most certainly isn't. Are we to say then that since the terrain in Afghanistan was rough, we were better off taking a little time off to blast Saddam...who just like North Korea, knew that if he'd lauched any attack on the USA, he would be obliterated. It's just that he was obliterated before he even thought about doing that

You still do not comprehend the threat we all face.

Nor do you my friend. See...this "pull out in 90 days strategy" that is being announced to commence just long enough before the elections, but not so long as to affect life in the USA, will open the door for a really nice civil war in Iraq. And who will the extremists in the Arab world hold responsible? The good old US of A. And from the news footage I've seen, a lot of those Iraqi's aren't living anything near a life of luxury, and the promise of 70 virgins in the afterworld might start looking pretty darn good to them. The terrorist recruiters will have their pick of willing fools to strap a bomb on their belly and board a New York subway. Bush started something that he and his cronies didn't think through. Now the world gets to pay for it. GWB wouldn't get my vote if he was running unopposed.

 

[Fly]

:huh:

Here's an update on Bush... Since it's election time, let's recap, shall we?

I attacked and took over 2 countries.

I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not
easy!).

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any
12 month period.

I set all-time records for the biggest drop in the history of the stock
market.

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on
vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my Dad's, but I
did).

After taking the entire month of August 2001 off for vacation, I presided
over the worst security failure in US history.

I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president
in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their
jobs.

I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any
other president in US history.

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a
12-month period.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than
any president in US history.

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president,
since the advent of TV.

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than
any other US president in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to
intervene when corruption was revealed.

I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the
record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US
history.

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in
US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US
history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron
oil tanker named after her.)

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the
Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market
in any country in the history of the world.

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack AND military
occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the
United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the
history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland Security"
(only one letter away from BS).

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases,
more than any other president in US history (Ronnie was tough to beat,
but I did it!!).

I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations
remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove
the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of
congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US
history.

I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. I withdrew from the
World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by
default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate
campaign donations.

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my
best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy
frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US
history.

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack
(and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the
biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people
of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace
and stability.

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.

I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees
who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in
corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any
other president in US history.

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less
than two years turned every single economic category heading straight
down.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

I have at least one conviction for drunk driving
in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during time
of war.

I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug
use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to
my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or
bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on
the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding
public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
review.



GEORGE W. BUSH
The White House, Washington, DC
Bush in 2004 :down:

 

[A10Pilot]

It most certainly isn't. Are we to say then that since the terrain in Afghanistan was rough, we were better off taking a little time off to blast Saddam...who just like North Korea, knew that if he'd lauched any attack on the USA, he would be obliterated. It's just that he was obliterated before he even thought about doing that

When will you get it through your head this is a GLOBAL War On Terror? During WWII, should we have limited our engagements to the Pacific and the Japanese?

Saddam would not have attacked us directly - he would have fed the WMD to terrorists and sat back and watched. Unbelievable that you can't see this!

Nor do you my friend. See...this "pull out in 90 days strategy" that is being announced to commence just long enough before the elections, but not so long as to affect life in the USA, will open the door for a really nice civil war in Iraq. And who will the extremists in the Arab world hold responsible? The good old US of A. And from the news footage I've seen, a lot of those Iraqi's aren't living anything near a life of luxury, and the promise of 70 virgins in the afterworld might start looking pretty darn good to them. The terrorist recruiters will have their pick of willing fools to strap a bomb on their belly and board a New York subway. Bush started something that he and his cronies didn't think through. Now the world gets to pay for it. GWB wouldn't get my vote if he was running unopposed.

Oh yes I do see the threat that you bury your head in the sand avoiding. I see it every time I get intel briefs. I see it when I deploy to the Middle East. I will see it when I return. I see it quite clearly. You need to pull your head out and open your eyes.

We are not 'pulling out'. We are turning over government control to Iraqis - not the military or the security. We are still in Kosovo / Bosnia, we are still in Korea, and we will still be in Iraq for years to come.

I have been in Iraq. Have you? You are so clueless it isn't funny. I have spoken to Iraqi citizens. Have you? I have seen Iraqi torture devices. Have you? I have seen Iraqi chemical warfare gear. Have you?

I showed this pathetic tirade of yours to other fighter pilots in my squadron and asked for their opinion. At best, the response was one of resignation in the ignorance of many Americans like you. At worst it was one of outright disgust that we put our lives on the line for such ill-informed ostriches.


As far as Fly is concerned....

Your list is so full of outright lies, inaccuracies, and half-truths it is beyond the pale.

God Bless America and save us from these people!

A10 Pilot