Dump Alpa?

[luvthe9]

For the PILOTS ONLY, if or when this goes through would you guys rather stay with ALPA or dump them for an in-house union. Just curiuos.

 

[UseYourHead]

Stay with ALPA, no question.

Any problems are the group of employees at a particular airline, they are ALPA in each case. A private union changes the name but not the dynamic there.

Also you have medical, legal, and other support with an International union.

For the PILOTS ONLY, if or when this goes through would you guys rather stay with ALPA or dump them for an in-house union. Just curiuos.

[post="269440"][/post]​

 

[nostradamus]

Stay with ALPA, no question.

Any problems are the group of employees at a particular airline, they are ALPA in each case. A private union changes the name but not the dynamic there.

Also you have medical, legal, and other support with an International union.

[post="269465"][/post]​

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately?

 

[CaptBud330]

I am a retired US Airways Captain. Some years ago, I was attempting with other pilots to replace ALPA on our property. Over 1500 signatures of intent to vote to decertify ALPA were received. Unfortunately we came up about 200 signatires short of the number necessary to get a vote to vote todecertify.
Aside from saving enormous sums of money in dues, there are ample resons to "dump"ALPA. Only 30% of your dues actually comes back to America West for issues that are important to your group. The rest is used to support the lavish infrastructure of the union. If you want a real awakening as to where your dues actually go, request ALPA to send you a copy of the budget.
As for legal, areo-medical, safety, etc...you could get F.Lee Bailey for less then you pay in dues. You can get the Mayo Clinic for less the you pay in dues. As for safety, I am sure you have an in house safety committee already in place.
I honestly believe in the necessity of having a union. ALPA is NOT the answer.

 

[UseYourHead]

IMHO,

Wow, as an ACTIVE pilot I strongly disagreed then and even more now.

And I was happy to work and vote against you and your group of USPA...that would have been a scary scenario (some of those characters involved at the time), what difference would it make on a local level except for dues? And if you ever have a violation or major medical issue that ALPA goes to bad with you on you get all your money back and far more.

Any disagreement you had then or recently would not have been fixed by an in house union, you would have had the same folks seeking power, running for office, ect.

I really am amazed what anyone thinks would be so different. Except maybe if you fell out of favor with the choosen few, you may find yourseld fired without an International union/legal/professional services behind you.

If active members do not like the dues schedule, get active and get it changed. IMHO, you get allot for the money, far more than we would get on our own.

I am a retired US Airways Captain. Some years ago, I was attempting with other pilots to replace ALPA on our property. Over 1500 signatures of intent to vote to decertify ALPA were received. Unfortunately we came up about 200 signatires short of the number necessary to get a vote to vote todecertify.
Aside from saving enormous sums of money in dues, there are ample resons to "dump"ALPA. Only 30% of your dues actually comes back to America West for issues that are important to your group. The rest is used to support the lavish infrastructure of the union. If you want a real awakening as to where your dues actually go, request ALPA to send you a copy of the budget.
As for legal, areo-medical, safety, etc...you could get F.Lee Bailey for less then you pay in dues. You can get the Mayo Clinic for less the you pay in dues. As for safety, I am sure you have an in house safety committee already in place.
I honestly believe in the necessity of having a union. ALPA is NOT the answer.

[post="269553"][/post]​

 

[AAviator]

Dump ALPA

 

[exB717Flyer]

I've been a Teamster, ALPA and APA. Dumping ALPA will solve nothing! And this is coming from an ex-TWAer who's a member of a class-action lawsuit against ALPA.

 

[UseYourHead]

I agree,

I am surprised that anyone thinks that they will be better off. It seems to me that anger and loss of individual control is what irks most people and they blame it on the union, and not there lack of invovlement, or inability for them to get their way, so they want to take their marbles and go home.

To the APA guy, ya I can see how good APA has done for you 🙂

Each group just has to do what they have to do, and 100% of the group will never all be in agreement, those are the one typically that want out...IMHO

I've been a Teamster, ALPA and APA. Dumping ALPA will solve nothing! And this is coming from an ex-TWAer who's a member of a class-action lawsuit against ALPA.

[post="269611"][/post]​

 

[nostradamus]

I agree,

I am surprised that anyone thinks that they will be better off. It seems to me that anger and loss of individual control is what irks most people and they blame it on the union, and not there lack of invovlement, or inability for them to get their way, so they want to take their marbles and go home.

To the APA guy, ya I can see how good APA has done for you 🙂

Each group just has to do what they have to do, and 100% of the group will never all be in agreement, those are the one typically that want out...IMHO

[post="269620"][/post]​

useyourhead

You are obviously a alpa official who is afraid of loosing their cush, flying a desk, get home every night job.

When you complain to a alpa official they immediatly ask you how many meetings you have been to. Your members are on the road 20 + days a month now, the last thing we want to do is show up for a meeting and watch you hand out kudos to each other then throw us out and go close door meeting so you can give everything away.


How about leading for the future. It is too late for most of us, but how about a national list of some kind, not for present pilots, the future generation.

Now if you can please get specific about my question earlier;

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please.

[post="269633"][/post]​

Every time ALPA files a grievance or defends a pilot against charges by the company. Of course every union does that which is my point: changing unions will solve nothing. I'm no cheerleader for ALPA but the reality is it serves a function. Some say ALPA Medical alone is worth the dues. You seem convinced that dumping ALPA will make life better for pilots. Why don't YOU present some facts to back up your opinion, ie, all the times ALPA has been dumped and everything became hunky-dory.

 

[UseYourHead]

You are incorrect, I am NOT an ALPA official, and I fly a full line of time as a reserve who is domiciled out of my home town, so I know better than many how much time were talking.

We are all ALPA, so if you want some agenda, direction, or policy persued you will need to get invovled, thats the way it works.

National seniority list? Again, it would take an ALPA wide desire to implement that...again you would need to get organized and involved.

To answer your question: "What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please."

When I worked at People Express, and things got tough, cost cutting could just happen, oh by the way its retroactive to your last check.

Lately we have had unlimited resources from legal and fanancial advisors (oh ya too bad 4 or 12 guys totaly disregarded it) to help guide us through these tough decsions, along with support in umpteen ways,

Part of the problem is that if your airline is losing it due to poor management descions, ALPA is onlya buffer to the amount of bad, and the timetable that it is despensed, they do not run the airline, but they do get in the way of what management wants to do with regard to labor cuts and so on,

There is much value to being associated with an International labor union (especially when you heed the advice given, as those advisors have been there over and over and over again!

useyourhead

You are obviously a alpa official who is afraid of loosing their cush, flying a desk, get home every night job.

When you complain to a alpa official they immediatly ask you how many meetings you have been to. Your members are on the road 20 + days a month now, the last thing we want to do is show up for a meeting and watch you hand out kudos to each other then throw us out and go close door meeting so you can give everything away.
How about leading for the future. It is too late for most of us, but how about a national list of some kind, not for present pilots, the future generation.

Now if you can please get specific about my question earlier;

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please.

[post="269633"][/post]​

 

[nostradamus]

You are incorrect, I am NOT an ALPA official, and I fly a full line of time as a reserve who is domiciled out of my home town, so I know better than many how much time were talking.

We are all ALPA, so if you want some agenda, direction, or policy persued you will need to get invovled, thats the way it works.

National seniority list? Again, it would take an ALPA wide desire to implement that...again you would need to get organized and involved.

To answer your question: "What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please."

When I worked at People Express, and things got tough, cost cutting could just happen, oh by the way its retroactive to your last check.

Lately we have had unlimited resources from legal and fanancial advisors (oh ya too bad 4 or 12 guys totaly disregarded it) to help guide us through these tough decsions, along with support in umpteen ways,

Part of the problem is that if your airline is losing it due to poor management descions, ALPA is onlya buffer to the amount of bad, and the timetable that it is despensed, they do not run the airline, but they do get in the way of what management wants to do with regard to labor cuts and so on,

There is much value to being associated with an International labor union (especially when you heed the advice given, as those advisors have been there over and over and over again!

[post="269692"][/post]​

[/quote

Maybe you did not read my question correctly the first two times so I will ask it again. (by the way I never said the solution was to "dump alpa".)

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please.

 

[Dave]

Keep one thing in mind when the talk turns to dumping ALPA. The question one should ask is, what would management want?

I'm always amazed that when management comes after the workers with a baseball bat, people for some reason blame the union.

 

[luvthe9]

QUOTE][/QUOTE][/CODE][

We are all ALPA, so if you want some agenda, direction, or policy persued you will need to get invovled, thats the way it works.

National seniority list? Again, it would take an ALPA wide desire to implement that...again you would need to get organized and involved.

To answer your question: "What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please."

We are all ALPA, But there is no union at all each alpa carrier wants the other one out of business thats a fact. No one cared at all when US pilots lost their pension, no other carrier came to are aid, now UAL lost theirs DAL is going to lose thiers also. ALPA NATIONAL HAS DONE NOTHING for any of us in my opinion. It's going to get very interesting. I hope it all works out somehow.

 

[UseYourHead]

Okay,

ALPA is responsible for basically every measure of pay, working conditions, and safety related advancements made since ALPA beginnings.

For the most part every airline contract or group, ALPA or non-ALPA has been forced to use over time the gains made by ALPA carriers. The desirablity of an airline job during our lifetime is the direct result of this.

So lately, what has ALPA done? It has given the support to each ALPA airline group in a myraid of ways to fight against the slide in our pay and working conditions. ALPA does not run the airline, make the business plan, or execute it. ALPA is a check and balance (if the pilot group uses these services) to evaluate business plans, business viability, and so on esspecially during consessionary requests from your respective airline.

I know at US Airways, ALPA International has expended an enormous amount of support in these ways (unfortunately some of it was blown off by angry, irrationational representitives resulting in a worse contract than the intial offer).

So what has ALPA done lately to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession? That is your answer, support, advice, and other services the same thing it did during the good times that resulted in the decades of gains we all benefited from.

Right now we all (that is all of our respective airlines with those management making good decsions that result in viable businesses) have to make it through this economic cycle coupled with the fundimental and permanent change in the airline industry.

That is airline managements job, not our labor union.

Maybe you did not read my question correctly the first two times so I will ask it again. (by the way I never said the solution was to "dump alpa".)

Can someone remind us all. What is one thing ALPA has done to stop the degredation of the Pilot profession lately? Facts please.

[post="269695"][/post]​