East Pilots

[LCC_#1]

Why do you think the Delta pilots fought so hard against a merger with US? Why do you think UAL pilots made a pre-nup a condition of any merger with US. Because we all know that their intention is to push, manipulate, force, or use any means at any cost to get DOH in order to repair their disfunctional career at the expense of others. This has always been their intention. And it is playing out EXACTLY as many of us anticipated.

YOU ARE OUT OF LINE!! The ONLY dysfunction was the THIEVES that ran this company for years. NONE of the past US mergers have had strictly DOH and you know it so SHAME ON YOU for stirring up LIES!! YOU don't work for US Airways so YOU dont know WHAT the INTENTIONS of ANY US Airways employee IS or WAS!! Just your speculation and a few strong opinions on US Aviation.

In ANY merger you strive for one level and usually settle for another. YOUR pilots would do the SAME!! Of course the pilot group would strive for DOH, but EVERY pilot I spoke with KNEW there would not be DOH...so unless you actually WORK for US AIrways and work with the pilots to hear what they say, then you need to shut the hell up because you don't know what you are talking about.

ALPA does not have a DOH and should not support any reversal. You seem to think that all the pilots feel as a few on here do. If thats all you have, how sad!! AFA HAS a DOH policy and look what happened when the AWA f/a's tried to change THAT? They got shot down. The unions can only enforce the policies and only the leadership can change it but not at mid stream. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

Shame on US East pilots and US West f/a's for trying to undermine the policies of their unions.

And as for you 767, as a fellow pilot and ALPA member, you owe the US East pilots an apology. You have no bone in this fight and should not be quick to stir the pot. Let those guys have their days to huff and puff and they will get over it.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

IF it was overturned there would be a huge backlash from Tens of Thousands of other ALPA members. No one within ALPA except the East pilots supports DOH integration.

Because we all know that their (DAL,UAL) intention is to push, manipulate, force, or use any means at any cost to get DOH in order to repair their disfunctional career at the expense of others.

This award sets a strong precedent for the inevitable future consolidation.If it is so unreasonable, the pilots of UAL, DAL, NWA, and every other ALPA airline would be up in arms by now. They are not. That should be your strongest indication of the collective opinion of ALPA.

They don't want DOH yet they want DOH?
Well if they all want DOH then why no backlash?
If it sets a precedent for inevitable consolidation but everyone wants DOH for their careers then why aren't they up in arms?

I am missing something in your post...Ah I think I found whats missing.. LCC #i's brought it to light...it's to stir the pot..ahhhh

 

[EastUS]

"I know AFA has a DOH merger policy and it seems to work for you gals/guys. But you really have to talk to a pilot to understand the unique and very important differences that makes DOH a non-starter."

Seems like an apologist for all the idiots at UAL that dismantled DOH in the first place.

 

[767jetz]

They don't want DOH yet they want DOH?
Well if they all want DOH then why no backlash?
If it sets a precedent for inevitable consolidation but everyone wants DOH for their careers then why aren't they up in arms?

I am missing something in your post...Ah I think I found whats missing.. LCC #i's brought it to light...it's to stir the pot..ahhhh

Nice try Tuna, but you altered my original post by adding "(DAL,UAL)." here is what I originally said:

Why do you think the Delta pilots fought so hard against a merger with US? Why do you think UAL pilots made a pre-nup a condition of any merger with US. Because we all know that their (US East)intention is to push, manipulate, force, or use any means at any cost to get DOH in order to repair their disfunctional career at the expense of others.

Is that more clear for you? I assumed you are a US West guy. If so, then you can clearly see from my posts that I am on your side.

Every ALPA member has a bone in this fight because it sets a precedent that will inevitably be used in future consolidation.

As I have said, US East is the only group of ALPA pilots who supports DOH. That's why there is no outcry from the tens of thousands of other ALPA members about this award. Now if US East is successful in overturning it (HIGHLY doubtful) then there will be an outcry.

 

[767jetz]

YOU ARE OUT OF LINE!! The ONLY dysfunction was the THIEVES that ran this company for years.

Easy there. That is exactly what I meant by dysfunctional. Because of what USAir went through, you had 20 year pilots on furlough. Nowhere else has there ever been such a distorted situation. But it is the fault of your past management and not the AWA pilots. It happened in the past. It needs to be put to rest in the past. That was the situation before this merger ever took place.

NONE of the past US mergers have had strictly DOH and you know it so SHAME ON YOU for stirring up LIES!! YOU don't work for US Airways so YOU dont know WHAT the INTENTIONS of ANY US Airways employee IS or WAS!! Just your speculation and a few strong opinions on US Aviation.

Actually no, you are wrong. I do know what the intention of US East pilots is because your guys said it to me personally back in 2000. I had many a USAir pilot "lecture" me on their jumpseat about how "it always goes DOH at USAIrways," and "DOH is the precedent," and "Don't worry, I'll be happy with my 767 Captain position on in Los Angeles," coming from a 737 captain who commuted to PHL. These are direct quotes from your guys to me personally. So spare me your 'it's just speculation' BS.

ALPA does not have a DOH and should not support any reversal.

The unions can only enforce the policies and only the leadership can change it but not at mid stream.

You can't change the rules in the middle of the game.

Shame on US East pilots and US West f/a's for trying to undermine the policies of their unions.

Now these are rational statements that applaud and agree with.

You seem to think that all the pilots feel as a few on here do.

I don't think that ALL the pilots feel this way. But from I've been seeing, there sure are many of them. You apparently are not one, so I do not lump you in that group.

You have no bone in this fight and should not be quick to stir the pot. Let those guys have their days to huff and puff and they will get over it.

Actually every ALPA member has a bone in this fight because of the inevitable industry consolidation and the precedent this award sets.

Based on these facts, there will be no apology forthcoming, except to say that I'm sorry if you feel I think all US East pilots are unreasonable. I do not. But from where I stand right now it seems like many are unreasonable, and certainly the ones leading your MEC, who produced the multiple resolutions we read in other threads.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Nice try Tuna, but you altered my original post by adding "(DAL,UAL)." here is what I originally said:
Is that more clear for you? I assumed you are a US West guy. If so, then you can clearly see from my posts that I am on your side.

Ok thanks for clearing it up.. when you said "their" I thought you were talking about UAL and DAL who you mentioned in the preceding sentence. My fault sorry an honest. I did have a hard time believing what I was reading.

 

[Bud8EE]

Easy there. That is exactly what I meant by dysfunctional. Because of what USAir went through, you had 20 year pilots on furlough. Nowhere else has there ever been such a distorted situation. But it is the fault of your past management and not the AWA pilots. It happened in the past. It needs to be put to rest in the past. That was the situation before this merger ever took place.
Actually no, you are wrong. I do know what the intention of US East pilots is because your guys said it to me personally back in 2000. I had many a USAir pilot "lecture" me on their jumpseat about how "it always goes DOH at USAIrways," and "DOH is the precedent," and "Don't worry, I'll be happy with my 767 Captain position on in Los Angeles," coming from a 737 captain who commuted to PHL. These are direct quotes from your guys to me personally. So spare me your 'it's just speculation' BS.
Now these are rational statements that applaud and agree with.
I don't think that ALL the pilots feel this way. But from I've been seeing, there sure are many of them. You apparently are not one, so I do not lump you in that group.
Actually every ALPA member has a bone in this fight because of the inevitable industry consolidation and the precedent this award sets.

Based on these facts, there will be no apology forthcoming, except to say that I'm sorry if you feel I think all US East pilots are unreasonable. I do not. But from where I stand right now it seems like many are unreasonable, and certainly the ones leading your MEC, who produced the multiple resolutions we read in other threads.

I have to believe that this award just created 3000+ strike breakers which gives their group no hope of a decent contract at least for a generation.(which affects all of us) That union will never have any leverage if the award stands and their management knows it and will use it. They will set the bar and it will be what all other airline management use to negotiate against. 767JETZ, how are you going to feel when these guys come scab our jobs? Most of them wouldn't wipe their a$$ with their ALPA card let alone honor an ALPA picket line. What has 20 years or $50,000+ in dues gotten them? Where the CAL guys just didn't stay unified in the beginning and fear drove enough back to keep it going to break the union, there are probably thousands now that would do it out of anger and pride and wouldn't feel any shame. This was a dark day for the profession, and sadly because the union rewrote a policy to allow a group who could play the best game a dice to come out on top, instead of one like the AFA or other unions, that tell you how it is at the outset.

When and if it happens, I am going to tell the affected pilot group, even if it is mine, we brought this on our selves. If we want to act like a national organization instead of a national union, then it is every group for themselves and we are reaping what we sow. It's every man for himself, whether it is at a arbiter's table or walking through a picket line. When Eastern erected a picket line and Delta was adding extra segments, did Duffy(Delta Pilot) tell his pilots to honor it? Hell no, and I'm sure there was much excited talk about how the misfortune of the Eastern Pilots was going to positively effect their "career expectations." This profession is all about me, and concepts of longevity and experience are held up as "sacred cows" unless it comes to a merger. ALPA refuses to create any national structure that protects us from ourselves and lest face it, pilots are their own worst enemy. This angers me and should every pilot because there is every reason to believe their contract and the plight of their pilot group will affect the next one we or anyone else gets(pattern bargaining, another ALPA great) and with thousands of potential scabs out there, we are almost as hosed as they are.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Bud,

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. You NEVER give in to terrorism.

 

[Bud8EE]

Bud,

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong. You NEVER give in to terrorism.

It tends to take its toll though, doesn't it?