"Easties" out West

[SKY HIGH]

The union LEC can get the tapes pulled.

sky high states: good point, bull. I'm wondering, doesnt the company try to intepret the F/A contract language to their advantage? Also, schedulers tend to pressure the situation when a dispute happens. They try to win the conservation by saying, "Are you refusing the trip?" which scares you into accepting the situation.




0nly stating opinions.

So you expect all of those work rule changes and an up on the payscale?

And I have never known a crew scheduler to give an assignment out to tick someone off. You must realize that they don't want you ticked off because it just makes their job harder.

sky high states: I "EXPECT" TO BE ABLE TO LIVE OFF MY PAYCHECK.



only stating opinions.

 

[hp_fa]

Here's another story that occurred.

I was sitting at home on a Golden Day (GD), which is a day off. Reserves at West have nine GD's and three DO's (Day's off). A DO is a day off that the company can move at any time up until you are released from your last leg on the day before a DO appears on yopur schedule. If they take your DO they must replace it with a GD at a mutually agreeable date. (Mutually agreeable is kind of funny because where you want to put it is usually some time they don't want you off, but that is another discussion.)

Anyway, I am sitting at home on a GD. Like all good reserves I never answered the phone for numbers I didn't recognize on my Caller ID display or calls from AWA, but let all calls go through to the message machine. Well, the call was from J at Irregular Ops who left a message that they had Volunteer Fly instituted and wanted to know if I would work a LAX turn for them that day. The next day I was to start a block of five or six days of availability. I looked at what was in Open Time for the next day and saw a four day STL and a rare 32-hour YVR (Vancouver) there. I already knew ahead of time that scheduling always claims that they don't do deals. But I said to myself why not try for it anyway. So I called back. J wasn't there, but L was. I told L that J had called and this is what she had said. I told her that I would work the LAX turn if they would replace my GD and give me the STL/YVR trip. (I fully expected them to say no and be at the end of the call.) L said that they don't do deals and I said fine, They can just find someone else and I would just spend the rest of my GD at home. She said that she would ask about it (showing she was desperate).

Twenty minutes later the phone rang and it was L. She said that after a discussion in Scheduling they had given me the trip and replaced the GD and that I had the LAX turn. I said OK, got dressed and went to work. As the LAX trip ended I called to be released. M (another scheduler) said I had been tagged, that I was going back to LAX for an overnight. I said no, I had been promised the STL/YVR. He said they don't do deals and that I had to go. I went, but was literally talking to my supervisor as they shut the door on the airplane.

When I got back I raised hell. I spoke with a manager at Scheduling who told me that deals were not made. I told her the date/time of the calls, that I knew they didn't make deals but they clearly made one. Two days later she had listened to the tape and said the tape wasn't clear about the deal. I asked her if she heard that I was to get the STL/YVR and she said yes. I said OK, I would call the Union and grieve. She said wait, what did I want. I said a long YVR on a trip during reserve availability. She had none, I said fine and that I'd call the union. She said wait. How about if I got the chance to one time choose a trip from open time to be assigned to me. I accepted.

It took 4-5 weeks till I found a trip, but I found a long Calgary that I chose. Of course I had to convince them again to assign it to me, but I told them that the permission was in their log. They found it, gave me the trip and while I was in Calgary I went to the casino and won $2,400.00. It worked out in the end, but the message is don't trust scheduling. They will say and do anything to cover trips and then throw the rules back in your face as a reason for not doing what they said they would do.

 

[USstew23]

The problem with "Auto-ing" can be resolved if we are allowed to split our trips and put them on the ETB.

Hey now that sounds like a good idea, then more trips on the ETB that can be picked up (possible trips that we are able to work).

 

[HPGUY]

Since I haven't seen you say that there aren't enough reserves to cover the open time, I assume reserve coverage is generally adequate. Yet you said:
Taken together, it sure sounds like the problem isn't not enough reserves, but managing the "pools" of reserves.

For example, I assume the West trips (just like the East) terminate at various times during the day. Why not put two or three AUTOs together so that it's beneficial for a reserve to drive to the airport to cover? Why tag (or call out) 2 or 3 reserves to cover those AUTOs? Sounds like it's just taking the easy way out.

Why not have enough HOT reserves to cover some of the AUTOs? Conversely, why approve AUTOs if there isn't enough HOT coverage? Again, it sounds like taking the easy course.

Without knowing anything about the West contract, it sure sounds like scheduling is taking the easy way out - picking whoever they please to cover whatever they please. Tag, call at home, extend HOT. Makes life a lot easier on the schedulers, no thought or effort required. Sure seems like it plays havoc on the reserve F/A's though.

Jim

I was saying that if tagging is done away with then the company will of course keep a higher number of FAs on reserve. And of course the more FAs on reserve adds to how long one has to sit on reserve.

HOT reserves have to kept for last minute absence, which in the FA group's case are numerous.

If we have 40 people at home... of course we're not going to tag. And then we catch hell from the FAs who don't like the trips that we have. And all our open trips don't just conveniently fit together.

 

[nyprincess]

HOT reserves have to kept for last minute absence, which in the FA group's case are numerous.

If we have 40 people at home... of course we're not going to tag. And then we catch hell from the FAs who don't like the trips that we have. And all our open trips don't just conveniently fit together.

HOT reserves are for last minutes absences??? That's abunch of BS! Half my trips that I get off of HOT are not last minutes absence so you can stop on that one now. Really don't know who your trying to convince.

And when did scheduling ever care about catching hell from the fa's?

 

[drrstrav]

Since I haven't seen you say that there aren't enough reserves to cover the open time, I assume reserve coverage is generally adequate. Yet you said:
Taken together, it sure sounds like the problem isn't not enough reserves, but managing the "pools" of reserves.

For example, I assume the West trips (just like the East) terminate at various times during the day. Why not put two or three AUTOs together so that it's beneficial for a reserve to drive to the airport to cover? Why tag (or call out) 2 or 3 reserves to cover those AUTOs? Sounds like it's just taking the easy way out.

Why not have enough HOT reserves to cover some of the AUTOs? Conversely, why approve AUTOs if there isn't enough HOT coverage? Again, it sounds like taking the easy course.

There is one thing most of you forget: all reserve in the West Garanteed 70 hrs, irrespective of their trip. Hence, when one is tagged for short trip, it is already paid within that 70 hrs. Hence, it is neither here or there if you go short or long trip. The only thing gives extra money, when there is an overninght ron. The scheduling tries to work everybody at least up to 70hrs. (since it is paid to each reserve/month)Any flying over that, I can see the long hauls are better, since it is extra $$$. Tagging is unpleasant, tiresome, incovenient but not a $$ issue.

Without knowing anything about the West contract, it sure sounds like scheduling is taking the easy way out - picking whoever they please to cover whatever they please. Tag, call at home, extend HOT. Makes life a lot easier on the schedulers, no thought or effort required. Sure seems like it plays havoc on the reserve F/A's though.

Jim

 

[USstew23]

I was saying that if tagging is done away with then the company will of course keep a higher number of FAs on reserve. And of course the more FAs on reserve adds to how long one has to sit on reserve.

HOT reserves have to kept for last minute absence, which in the FA group's case are numerous.

If we have 40 people at home... of course we're not going to tag. And then we catch hell from the FAs who don't like the trips that we have. And all our open trips don't just conveniently fit together.

Why are there like 6 or 7 Hot RSV (OPR) shifts (with 4 or 5 F/A's on each just for 1 base) per day in the West when in the East we have like 3 shifts with like 3 people, (in the big bases,not sure about BOS, LGA, DCA)? I haven't sat OPR that often and I have NEVER been used for anything. Explain how an airline twice the size of AWA with 2 times the amount of F/A's (4 times before 9/11) manages with this and is not running around with arms waving and going nuts?

 

[JAXPax]

Explain how an airline twice the size of AWA with 2 times the amount of F/A's (4 times before 9/11) manages with this and is not running around with arms waving and going nuts?

"Cool northern efficiency." - Ed Colodny

 

[Travelpro72]

Though the east system is far from perfect there seems to be some really shady crap going on over there in the west. This BS better not be rolled up into the new contract. It is true and something to think about when it was stated about all our bases and the size of the east operation. We don't have these issues and crisis the way it happens out west. Something is seriously wrong. As for the complaining....all the more reason to vote and be heard. It's all in the negotiated contract. We have had ours torn to shreds over here. We shall create a better environment for all through our voices....senior and junior.

 

[USstew23]

It's a good thing that crap out West didn't have Teddy to deal with... could you imagine??? They'd be hiding under their desk!!!

 

[nyprincess]

Why are there like 6 or 7 Hot RSV (OPR) shifts (with 4 or 5 F/A's on each just for 1 base) per day in the West when in the East we have like 3 shifts with like 3 people, (in the big bases,not sure about BOS, LGA, DCA)? I haven't sat OPR that often and I have NEVER been used for anything. Explain how an airline twice the size of AWA with 2 times the amount of F/A's (4 times before 9/11) manages with this and is not running around with arms waving and going nuts?

I was thinking the same thing....would love an answer for that. But I don't think we'll get one....or at least one that will make any sense.

 

[desertgal]

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I've read the whole thing.
HP GUY has touched a couple times on the tagging issue, but I don't think he boiled it down enuf for some to understand.

The AUTO program provides HUGE cost savings for the company.
Why lineholders are allowed to AUTO can be explained in $$.
A maxed-out lineholder makes more than twice as much as a reserve.
A reserve has already been guaranteed their 75credits for the month.
So, they're already paid.
The company can save $100 bucks a pop on a west coast turn by giving it to a reserve.

NOW, someone already mentioned that many AUTOs do not go to reserves, they go to GRs.
A GR is a lineholder whose trip became too delayed and irregular that they were sent home on say, day 2 of 3 and put on GR for the remaining original day.
They are going to receive their original pay credit for the trip even if they sit at home.
Trust me, there is no sitting at home.
They will AUTO someone else's turn and give it to you since you will be paid anyway.
Then they save $$ on the one they AUTOed.
So oftentimes approval of partial AUTOs hinges on how many irreg ops the day before resulted in GRs.

To say that East will never put up w/this crap is just unrealistic.
The company will NEVER throw away the cost savings from the AUTO program.
I believe it was also HP GUY who said something to the effect of just tighten up the rules a bit about how the AUTOS will be assigned.
I think it was BoeingBoy who suggested combining two seperate AUTOed turns to create something more reasonable for a reserve to work.

There's really nothing wrong w/AUTO, and in fact, its a wonderful benefit.
The problem is with West's toally mismanaged and incompetent scheduling department and their inability to implement it in a way that makes sense.

The Request for Partial AUTO form has to be into skd 24hrs prior to the trip report date.
And if you are asking to AUTO the turn on day 4, that gives them MORE than enuf time to combine requests and assign them.

Does this make any more sense?

We are LCC.
ITS ALL ABOUT $$$.


And, I don't know anyone who only uses half a mini unless its for a pax who appears to have had too much already and needs to be "slowed down".
Or, for little old ladies on vacation who want to get crazy w/a bloody mary or screwdriver and you know the whole mini will choke them.

I have not had the pleasure of flying with any reserves who are furloughed Easties, but I am looking forward to it!
As someone else mentioned, its mostly Westies w/10yrs or less who feel more "threatened".
I'm not in that group.

 

[2clippedwings]

NOW, someone already mentioned that many AUTOs do not go to reserves, they go to GRs.
A GR is a lineholder whose trip became too delayed and irregular that they were sent home on say, day 2 of 3 and put on GR for the remaining original day.
They are going to receive their original pay credit for the trip even if they sit at home.
Trust me, there is no sitting at home.
They will AUTO someone else's turn and give it to you since you will be paid anyway.
Then they save $$ on the one they AUTOed.
So oftentimes approval of partial AUTOs hinges on how many irreg ops the day before resulted in GRs.

I have this bad feeling the the "R" part of GR stands for RESERVE and blockholders on the east would probably resist (an understatement) this.
Can you define GR?

 

[desertgal]

Can you define GR?

GR=Gauranteed Reserve
Meaning, you are gauranteed the credit for the original flying you missed due to irreg ops., but they will use you for something else since they are paying you anyway.
The rules are, they have to have your assignment for you by 4pm the day prior, and they have to have you done by your origianl release time.
Its almost always a better deal than what you had.
Unless you're a commuter w/o a friend/place to spend the night in PHX.
I believe you can waive the GR assignment , but you give up the credit.
I can't afford that.

 

[USstew23]

To say that East will never put up w/this crap is just unrealistic.
The company will NEVER throw away the cost savings from the AUTO program.
I believe it was also HP GUY who said something to the effect of just tighten up the rules a bit about how the AUTOS will be assigned.
I think it was BoeingBoy who suggested combining two seperate AUTOed turns to create something more reasonable for a reserve to work.

There's really nothing wrong w/AUTO, and in fact, its a wonderful benefit.
The problem is with West's toally mismanaged and incompetent scheduling department and their inability to implement it in a way that makes sense.

The Request for Partial AUTO form has to be into skd 24hrs prior to the trip report date.
And if you are asking to AUTO the turn on day 4, that gives them MORE than enuf time to combine requests and assign them.

Does this make any more sense?

We are LCC.
ITS ALL ABOUT $$$.

I have not had the pleasure of flying with any reserves who are furloughed Easties, but I am looking forward to it!
As someone else mentioned, its mostly Westies w/10yrs or less who feel more "threatened".
I'm not in that group.

Well sorry to say but it may be unrealistic to keep the tagging junk. Some of us in the East have been on RSV as long as your most senior person has been around. Well maybe not the whole time but some are approaching 20+ years and still on RSV so yes if we are not going to stand for the tagging they will HAVE to throw it away, I for one (along with countless others) will never go for this. We are a tough old bunch and while yes the company needs to keep its costs inline at the same time we've been around a long long time and know it CAN work without making people's lives a living hell. Maybe they should let some of the AWA people come over and try some "Cool Northern Efficiency" and try life without tagging.