Embraer 190s

[TBONEJ4J]

Did US Airways ever actually order the E190s? I know that the company could have easily converted orders and options but was a 190 ever formally ordered?

The LOA 93 provision that allows the outsourcing of the 190 explicitly states that such outsourcing is contingent upon being unable to fulfill an existing order. I might be wrong, but I don't remember any such order.

This is the language from LOA 93 -

(3) in the event the Company orders EMB-190 aircraft and can not fulfill the order, upto twenty-five (25) of the EMB-190 orders or aircraft delivered may be sold or otherwise transferred to a Participating Affiliate Carrier to be flown as US Airways Express),

So, when did the company order 190s? B)

 

[justaumechanic]

Your so silly.

Didn't you know.

EVERYTHING CAN BE OUTSOURCED AT USAIRWAYS!!

No they did not order the E190.

They had to sell the E170's just to pay Al, Doug and Bruce for the month of June.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways or its affiliate carriers have not ordered EMB-190s, however, per LOA 93 RJ operators can order and fly these aircraft today for US Airways Express. Both Air Wisconsin and Republic are interested in flying these aircraft for US Airways Express.

Looking ahead, this scope provision could change when the US Airways & America West ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee begins discussions on a new pilot contract with the new US Airways senior management team.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[justaumechanic]

Dont hold your breath on a scope change.

Remember AWA has MESA flying the CRJ900. If I remember my seating correctly that is a 100 seat aircraft..

So if MESA can fly the CRJ900 I would suspect that any of the others can and will fly the E190 with no complaints from ALPA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Remember AWA has MESA flying the CRJ900. If I remember my seating correctly that is a 100 seat aircraft..

[post="285278"][/post]​

While Bombardier lists 86 seats as the standard configuration for the CRJ-900, AWA's website shows an 80 seat capacity for those operated for them by Mesa.

Jim

 

[Light Years]

If anybody at US Airways or America West wants a job and growth they better try thier darndest to scope those E-Jets back in.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

US Airways or its affiliate carriers have not ordered EMB-190s, however, per LOA 93 RJ operators can order and fly these aircraft today for US Airways Express. Both Air Wisconsin and Republic are interested in flying these aircraft for US Airways Express.

Looking ahead, this scope provision could change when the US Airways & America West ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee begins discussions on a new pilot contract with the new US Airways senior management team.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="285212"][/post]​

However, per LOA 93, the ability to send them out is contingent upon being unable to fulfill an order for them. Since US Airways never ordered any 190s, the contingency was never triggered.

Therefore, per LOA 93, these aircraft may not be flown by an affiliate. 😛h34r:

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Below is the entire section of LOA 93 that deals with the E190s.

Somebody please explain how any Affiliate lift provider may operate the E190 when the company never placed an order for them.

If they want to petition the judge to allow it, so be it. But they haven't, so they can not at this point contract out these Aircraft.

What am I missing?


Aircraft larger than current Large SJs (LOA #91):

Amend Letter of Agreement #91 to allow for the flying of EMB-190
aircraft under the same provisions as EMB-170/175 aircraft

(other than the following:

(1) rate of pay;

(2) subject to a maximum of
sixty (60) EMB-190 aircraft orders; and

(3) in the event the Company orders EMB-190 aircraft and can not fulfill the order, up to twenty-five (25) of the EMB-190 orders or aircraft delivered may be sold or otherwise transferred to a Participating Affiliate Carrier to be flown as US Airways Express),

and CRJ-900 aircraft under the same provisions as, and in lieu of, CRJ-700/701 aircraft

(other than the following:

(1) rate of pay; and

(2) CRJ-900 aircraft may be placed at a Participating Affiliate Carrier not subject to the December 31, 2006 placement deadline);

and further provided that any EMB-190 flown as US Airways Express may not be configured with more than 97 seats available to revenue passengers, and that the CRJ-900 flown as US Airways Express may not be configured with more than 90 seats available to revenue passengers. Rates of pay to be established under the new equipment clause of MidAtlantic Airways or other air carrier where the aircraft are to be placed. No change to SJ Authority of other terms or conditions of Letter of Agreement #91.

 

[a320av8r]

The company will go ahead and operate them and ALPA's Bill Pollack will be "outraged". That's it.

 

[Elevation]

This is whats going at CHQ union:

"We received informal news today from US Airways and America West that they are sending out a formal request for proposal for a regional carrier to operate up to 25 E190s for the merged carrier. Our current agreement with US Airways contemplated Republic operating these aircraft for them, but our CBA with the IBT does not presently allow us the ability to do that. We have asked our IBT to approve a side letter amending our CBA to allow Republic to operate the E190. Had we already had this side letter completed we would not now be in the situation of having to compete with Mesa, Skywest and Air Wisconsin for flying that was already coming our way. If we do not get a side letter passed by the end of August we will lose any opportunity to operate the E190 for Airways. I am strongly encouraging the IBT pilot council to get this out and ratified quickly."


Also doesnt GECAS have 25 E190 on order? GECAS is running the show of AWA aquistion of USAirways name.

 

[diogenes]

I'm guessing this lift will replace the departing B737's from U.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe US Airways and America West's intent to allow 25 EMB-190s to be operated by a carrier other than Republic is an effort to persuade the IBT to agree to the provisions of LOA 91, which would permit every MDA pilot to transfer to Republic.

The IBT has agreed to J4J provisions, which would cut MDA pilot positions in half.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TBONEJ4J]

I believe US Airways and America West's intent to allow 25 EMB-190s to be operated by a carrier other than Republic is an effort to persuade the IBT to agree to the provisions of LOA 91, which would permit every MDA pilot to transfer to Republic.

The IBT has agreed to J4J provisions, which would cut MDA pilot positions in half.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="285428"][/post]​

They can intend all they want, but they can NOT contract out the 190s under the terms of LOA 91 or LOA 93, to anybody. Be it Republic, Air Wisconsin, Mesa, Air China Express, etc. etc.

There are NO(Zero) 190s owned or on order, therefore they may not be sold or transfered to anybody.

To do so will require additional Scope relief.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Without further scope relief, LOA 93 permits US Airways to order EMB-190 aircraft and then if it does not fulfill the order, up to twenty-five (25) of the EMB-190 orders or aircraft delivered may be sold or otherwise transferred to a Participating Affiliate Carrier to be flown as US Airways Express.

Thus, it appears that US Airways can reach an agreement for Air Wisconsin or another entity to obtain EMB-190s. Do I like this? No, of course not, but it appears LOA 93 permits such a transaction, which according to the ALPA Negotiating Committee Chairman in "open session" last year was a deal breaker during LOA 93 deliberations.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[fr8tmastr]

Without further scope relief, LOA 93 permits US Airways to order EMB-190 aircraft and then if it does not fulfill the order, up to twenty-five (25) of the EMB-190 orders or aircraft delivered may be sold or otherwise transferred to a Participating Affiliate Carrier to be flown as US Airways Express.


I think you are missing Tbones point, Airways has not ordered the 190's so they cant transfer ect. any of them


Do I like this? No, of course not,

Here we go again, whenever managment starts putting it to us we get that famous quote