Embraer 190s
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USA320Pilot said:
The devil is truly in the details.
US Airways did NOT order E190s.
However, if they did right now(which won't happen with the company operating under Chapter 11), the contingency is not if they ELECT to not fulfill the order, the contingency is that they CAN'T fulfill the order.
From LOA 93:
3) in the event the Company orders EMB-190 aircraft and can not fulfill the order
LOA 93 certainly permits US Airways to order 190s and operate them at MDA. But, they must get to a point where they CAN NOT (which is not an elective choice!) fulfill the order for the contingency of transfer to an affiliate occurs.
This provision was inserted into LOA 93 so that in the event of a bankruptcy or 'credit crunch', already ordered 190s could continue to be brought into the system. Problem is, they forgot to order them. So the language does not apply. 😛
US Airways may not contract out the E190s. It is in violation of LOA 91 and LOA 93.
Why is ALPA not enforcing the LOAs? (That's a rhetorical question only)
Normally I would support your argument that what exists in writing now would prohibit E-190's later,
But this MEC, which I have heard best referred to as the "Ya-Ya brotherhood" for their willingness to give anything to keep what they have, is far more interested in maintaining what matters to pilots of their senority level than anything that junior pilots are concerned in.
So be it some deal over profit sharing, or whatever the "issue de jour" that has the AAA MEC jump into action to protect their own interests (alone), whatever scope relief that the company needs will be given in a hasty trade to protect and promote the interests of the few over the long term interests of the whole.
But this MEC, which I have heard best referred to as the "Ya-Ya brotherhood" for their willingness to give anything to keep what they have, is far more interested in maintaining what matters to pilots of their senority level than anything that junior pilots are concerned in.
So be it some deal over profit sharing, or whatever the "issue de jour" that has the AAA MEC jump into action to protect their own interests (alone), whatever scope relief that the company needs will be given in a hasty trade to protect and promote the interests of the few over the long term interests of the whole.
elixir
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justaumechanic said:
I'm a furloughed Airways guy, at Mesa for the time being in PHX...and the CRJ 900 is configured for 86 coach seats...there is talk of flying this airplane over to the east coast with an obvious stop midway across. As such, I'm certain that you will see the 190's flown by whomever fly across to the west under similar circumstances...This is clearly mainline narrowbody flying...thanks ALPA.
Amazing, and yet not surprising.
Despite the fact that the E190s may not be contracted out under the current circumstances, just about everybody (including ALPA) continues to discuss who will get them.
Maybe the MDA guys need to add this little detail to their lawsuit, legal action, whatever.
E170s are the stepping stone to the real prize which is the 190/195. I wonder if Republic would be so hot for the US Airways 170s if there were no 190s to follow almost immediately.
With the spineless AAA MEC in control of things, I guess we'll never know.
Despite the fact that the E190s may not be contracted out under the current circumstances, just about everybody (including ALPA) continues to discuss who will get them.
Maybe the MDA guys need to add this little detail to their lawsuit, legal action, whatever.
E170s are the stepping stone to the real prize which is the 190/195. I wonder if Republic would be so hot for the US Airways 170s if there were no 190s to follow almost immediately.
With the spineless AAA MEC in control of things, I guess we'll never know.
the turtle
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just my opinion, but I don't think ANY of you folks will get to fly them....most likely it will be AWA newhires
America West pilots want planned E-190 operations
Mary Kirby, Philadelphia (02Aug05, 17:21 GMT, 467 words)
An expected plan by America West Airlines and US Airways to contract a regional operator to fly up to 25 Embraer 190s once the two airlines merge faces opposition from the low-cost carrier’s pilots union, which says it expects to “retain that flying†for mainline pilots.
The America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) tells ATI the union is maintaining that any Embraer aircraft in the “E-190 and above†size range and any Bombardier aircraft in the “CSeries and above†range (effectively between 90 and 130 seats) fall within current scope clauses, and should only be operated by mainline employees.
E-190 flying is not permitted under America West’s current pilot contract. In contrast, US Airways affiliate carriers can fly up to 25 E-190s “under certain provisions†contained in the latest collective bargaining agreement between the major and its pilots, a spokesman with the US Airways unit of ALPA says.
“This is where the language in both contracts†differ, he says, adding that the issue “will involve some working outâ€.
Transition plan talks between America West pilots and management are scheduled for August 9 and 15. At that time, negotiators for the low-cost carrier’s pilot group will make clear that E-190 flying is “a huge issue for us and I think that given the state of the industry and the number of furloughs, we want to protect those jobsâ€, says a spokesman with the America West unit of ALPA.
He notes that that the union is “willing to discuss competitive pay rates with the company†for E-190 flying.
“Our immediate concern is working on a transition plan that will solve these major issues to close the [merger] deal,†he adds.
ATI yesterday exclusively revealed that America West and US Airways are issuing a formal request for proposal (RFP) for a regional carrier to operate up to 25 E-190s for the carriers when they eventually merge.
An America West spokesman confirmed that an “early stage RFP†has been circulated to Air Wisconsin, Mesa Air Group, and Republic Airways Holdings.
It is understood that Republic has already asked its pilots’ union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 747, to quickly amend the current collective bargaining agreement to allow the regional airline group to operate the E-190 under the parameters of US Airways’ jets-for-jobs program.
Mesa currently operates Bombardier CRJ900s for America West. But America West ALPA says the CRJ900 flying “was negotiated to a certain limit and amountâ€, and that the union is not willing to make the same concessions for the E-190.
“We don’t want to see anything that violates [America West pilots’] contract,†says US Airways ALPA. “That is why we’re trying to work out some of these areas. We expect the new management to respect those differences and to work with those union groups.â€
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
America West pilots want planned E-190 operations
Mary Kirby, Philadelphia (02Aug05, 17:21 GMT, 467 words)
An expected plan by America West Airlines and US Airways to contract a regional operator to fly up to 25 Embraer 190s once the two airlines merge faces opposition from the low-cost carrier’s pilots union, which says it expects to “retain that flying†for mainline pilots.
The America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) tells ATI the union is maintaining that any Embraer aircraft in the “E-190 and above†size range and any Bombardier aircraft in the “CSeries and above†range (effectively between 90 and 130 seats) fall within current scope clauses, and should only be operated by mainline employees.
E-190 flying is not permitted under America West’s current pilot contract. In contrast, US Airways affiliate carriers can fly up to 25 E-190s “under certain provisions†contained in the latest collective bargaining agreement between the major and its pilots, a spokesman with the US Airways unit of ALPA says.
“This is where the language in both contracts†differ, he says, adding that the issue “will involve some working outâ€.
Transition plan talks between America West pilots and management are scheduled for August 9 and 15. At that time, negotiators for the low-cost carrier’s pilot group will make clear that E-190 flying is “a huge issue for us and I think that given the state of the industry and the number of furloughs, we want to protect those jobsâ€, says a spokesman with the America West unit of ALPA.
He notes that that the union is “willing to discuss competitive pay rates with the company†for E-190 flying.
“Our immediate concern is working on a transition plan that will solve these major issues to close the [merger] deal,†he adds.
ATI yesterday exclusively revealed that America West and US Airways are issuing a formal request for proposal (RFP) for a regional carrier to operate up to 25 E-190s for the carriers when they eventually merge.
An America West spokesman confirmed that an “early stage RFP†has been circulated to Air Wisconsin, Mesa Air Group, and Republic Airways Holdings.
It is understood that Republic has already asked its pilots’ union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 747, to quickly amend the current collective bargaining agreement to allow the regional airline group to operate the E-190 under the parameters of US Airways’ jets-for-jobs program.
Mesa currently operates Bombardier CRJ900s for America West. But America West ALPA says the CRJ900 flying “was negotiated to a certain limit and amountâ€, and that the union is not willing to make the same concessions for the E-190.
“We don’t want to see anything that violates [America West pilots’] contract,†says US Airways ALPA. “That is why we’re trying to work out some of these areas. We expect the new management to respect those differences and to work with those union groups.â€
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
the turtle said:
Two things.
First, US Airways folks would most likely get to fly them. The Furloughees should be recalled to the merged entity before there is even one newhire.
Second, the 'certain provisions' under which affiliates can operate the E190s have not been triggered.
Thankfully the AWA pilots have taken notice of how suicidal it is to give away airplanes that your own people should be flying.
I wonder if they are also aware that there are 25 E170s being flown by mainline pilots that are in the process of being given away right now by US Airways. That's almost 300 pilot jobs that will go away in a merged operation. I hope the AWA Merger Committee remembers that when the Airbus boys are pleading for their jobs. B)
Hmmm, The AWA ALPA being proactive and actually taking a stand on something the AAA MEC basically have ignored...
Once again, along with the example of the Midatlantic pilots standing firm, stands another example of "how to be a pilot union" for the AAA MEC to learn from.
On a related note, the AUG 1st Class at Republic has been cancelled. No further classes planned so far from what we have been told.
Once again, along with the example of the Midatlantic pilots standing firm, stands another example of "how to be a pilot union" for the AAA MEC to learn from.
On a related note, the AUG 1st Class at Republic has been cancelled. No further classes planned so far from what we have been told.
Well MDA is not off the property yet. Is it...?
As for Mesa and everyone else, I would expect the RFP's to be placed out so as to solicit baseline numbers at which outsiders can do the flying, but scope provisions aside it also resents a given negotiation point from which the AWA/AAA pilots payscales can be established.
The E-190's belong to us, and unless the give-away MEC gives further E-190 flying away, it will remain in house.
The sooner the AWA Union reps run things rather than the AAA MEC, the better IMO
Cannot happen soon enough. Let's send Pollack packing...
As for Mesa and everyone else, I would expect the RFP's to be placed out so as to solicit baseline numbers at which outsiders can do the flying, but scope provisions aside it also resents a given negotiation point from which the AWA/AAA pilots payscales can be established.
The E-190's belong to us, and unless the give-away MEC gives further E-190 flying away, it will remain in house.
The sooner the AWA Union reps run things rather than the AAA MEC, the better IMO
Cannot happen soon enough. Let's send Pollack packing...
USA320Pilot
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Following the integration of the ALPA MEC's, the current US Airways ALPA MEC will hold the "senatorial" and "roll call" majority for the combined union and can pick the MEC chairman. The new MEC will likely have 16 voting members with 12 from US Airways and 4 from America West.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Regards,
USA320Pilot
