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No, it's not the same as you not replacing your old car, since you don't drive your car 10-12 hours per day, 365 days per year like AA does with its airplanes. A typical AA MD-80 burns about 3.5 million gallons of fuel per year and at current prices that's nearly $8 million per year per MD-80. If you could make the car payments on a new car with the money you'd save on gas by buying a new fuel efficient car, then you'd replace your old car with the new car. But you only drive your car a part of the day and not 10-12 hours each day. Your relatively small gasoline bill (as a percentage of the price of a new car) is why gassing up the old car instead of making large new car payments makes economic sense for you. Not so with AA and its MD-80s, which fly at least 10 hours per day on average.

The fuel savings by flying a new 738 instead of an MD-80 more than makes the payments on the new 738. That makes the purchase of a new 738 a cash-positive activity. It gets even better when you factor in the maintenance savings (parts and labor) on a brand-new airplane that's still under warranty. When oil again climbs above $100/bbl or $140/bbl (as it surely will), the decision to buy the 738s will look even more impressive.

As an aside, AA isn't paying anywhere near $80 million for each new 738 as you allege; its actual purchase price is less than half that amount. Boeing's list prices are its wish list, not a statement of what large airlines like AA pay when they order 80+ copies to be delivered in three years.

As I've posted before, AA's line maintenance employees deserve to be paid similarly to those at UPS, FedEX and WN. Problem is, AA will never pay the overhaul base mechanics in Tulsa anywhere near those wages. Not when their current wages are higher than at the MROs and allow the Tulsa employees to live high on the hog. Increase their pay to $45/hr or $47/hr or more? Not gonna happen. Figure out how to unhitch yourselves from those boat anchors and perhaps the line maintenance employees might see $45/hr or more.



I agree with you except that I don't consider the OH guys boat anchors, I think their market rate isn't $47 an hr. They are competeing against AAR, TIMCO and others in the US, I don't know how many MRO outfits in other countries, where labor is cheap. I do think that the OH mechs and line mechs should have separate contracts. Funny how when we say that the OH guys say "we should stick together", but before it was "if you don't like it move to Tulsa".

Don't forget when AA gets a new 737, they retire an old S80.
 
I realize the company wants to divide and conquer, but it seems we do a great job doing that amongst ourselves.
 
I realize the company wants to divide and conquer, but it seems we do a great job doing that amongst ourselves.


you don't like it "move to a line station" B)


all in good jest, but I don't want line pay to be sacrificed for OH life style. the OH mechs have to compete against market rates of other MRO's. Just like Eagle mechs who have the same responsibility as we do, but they get paid a lot less then us, because their market rate doesn't qualify them to make what SWA mechs make. Same for AA pilots and Eagle pilots, same responsibility, same weather, same airports different pay. Yes, we all know the planes are smaller, they still carry pax. Same example for FA's.

I say separate contracts for line and OH.
 
I realize the company wants to divide and conquer, but it seems we do a great job doing that amongst ourselves.

And what were you saying when "fleet service was dragging us down" or riding on your coat-tails????....
 
And what were you saying when "fleet service was dragging us down" or riding on your coat-tails????....


Historiacally, when we negotiated as ONE, all work groups were factored into the negotiating equation. When maintenance was able to separate from the other title groups, we were able to negotiate those things unique to mechanics to our benefit. By the same token, other title groups were able to negotiate their specific issues to their benefit. However, whatever structural increases were gained, we all received the same percentage.
I wouldn't use the term "dragging down." But I would say that our bargaining power never realized its full potential because all work groups came into play. I wonder how the pilots union would feel if they had mechanics in their union or even flight attendants.
If the company really wants the OH operation to run under a different contract with regards to pay, benefits and workrules, then this could be achieved by simply grandfathering in ALL existing employees under one contract, and new ones under another. At the rate of attrition, AA could realize a substanial benefit with new hires.
Want to speed the process up? Offer an early out package,
End result, existing mechanics stay happy, and new workers take the job FULLY aware of what they're getting and not getting.
 
Well put E, I wanted to say it but figured someone would call me a name.
 
LOL MCI,,, true, trying to be a kinder, gentler Conehead.... 😛
 
I agree with you except that I don't consider the OH guys boat anchors, I think their market rate isn't $47 an hr. They are competeing against AAR, TIMCO and others in the US, I don't know how many MRO outfits in other countries, where labor is cheap. I do think that the OH mechs and line mechs should have separate contracts. Funny how when we say that the OH guys say "we should stick together", but before it was "if you don't like it move to Tulsa".

Don't forget when AA gets a new 737, they retire an old S80.

Good point. They aren't "boat anchors," but the Tulsa personnel are the primary reason that Bob Owens and all the other line mechanics can't convince AA to pay them $47/hr.

The airlines that pay the high wages (WN, UPS and FedEx) don't completely disassemble and reassemble any of their airplanes. So it's no wonder that they can pay their line mechanics much higher hourly wages - they have relatively few of them and the companies can share some of their overhaul savings with those line mechanics by paying them substantially more than AA.
 
Good point. They aren't "boat anchors," but the Tulsa personnel are the primary reason that Bob Owens and all the other line mechanics can't convince AA to pay them $47/hr.

The airlines that pay the high wages (WN, UPS and FedEx) don't completely disassemble and reassemble any of their airplanes. So it's no wonder that they can pay their line mechanics much higher hourly wages - they have relatively few of them and the companies can share some of their overhaul savings with those line mechanics by paying them substantially more than AA.


agreed
 
Good point. They aren't "boat anchors," but the Tulsa personnel are the primary reason that Bob Owens and all the other line mechanics can't convince AA to pay them $47/hr.

The airlines that pay the high wages (WN, UPS and FedEx) don't completely disassemble and reassemble any of their airplanes. So it's no wonder that they can pay their line mechanics much higher hourly wages - they have relatively few of them and the companies can share some of their overhaul savings with those line mechanics by paying them substantially more than AA.
Those who actually do a job aren't really the problem - the problem is the extra personnel that do nothing but attempt to be important by spending their time in meetings, involved in the "Working Together" scam. This continues so as to provide the TWU with dues, the company being fully complicit in the sham.

2000-3000 extra people on the payroll provides the "union" with approximately $117k per month in dues payments (2500 people, average of $65k per year, 1.5 hours per month dues per head). It's not that I want to see these people gone, but understand why no raises are in store. The "union" wants its dues money - it gets no cut of the wages it negotiates, therefore, the highest "union" priority is keeping all personnel employed.
 
I wonder how the pilots union would feel if they had mechanics in their union

It wasn't that long ago that engineers were still in the cockpit, and they weren't represented by APA or the TWU. They were represented by the Flight Engineers International Association up until the 727's and DC10s were finally retired.
 
Good point. They aren't "boat anchors," but the Tulsa personnel are the primary reason that Bob Owens and all the other line mechanics can't convince AA to pay them $47/hr.

The airlines that pay the high wages (WN, UPS and FedEx) don't completely disassemble and reassemble any of their airplanes. So it's no wonder that they can pay their line mechanics much higher hourly wages - they have relatively few of them and the companies can share some of their overhaul savings with those line mechanics by paying them substantially more than AA.

Uh, what does the number of mechanics have to do with how much they earn per hour? [5-50-500-5000 mechanics - everybody knows a larger carrier with more aircraft is going to need more mechanics.] An individual utilizing his A&P in the hanger at TULE should not be paid any less than a A&P at a Line Station because we are working on the same B737-B757-B777 ect. and utilizing the same skills and license.Guess what, we also do PS-A & B Checks in Tulsa along with ADL & E6 Logbook Entries.How can you say with any honesty at all that O/H mechanics should make less than Line Mechanics?
Now COLA for various regions of the country on top of AMT wages is another matter all together.I agree that an AMT in LGA-LAX-ORD-MIA-ect. should get ADDITIONAL Regional Pay that someone working in Tulsa would not qualify for.
If they pay a O/H AMT $37.00/HR and a Line AMT $37.00/HR PLUS $6.00 OR SOME FIGURE / HR COLA for working at JFK-LAX I do NOT have a problem at all with this.
 
Good point. They aren't "boat anchors," but the Tulsa personnel are the primary reason that Bob Owens and all the other line mechanics can't convince AA to pay them $47/hr.

The airlines that pay the high wages (WN, UPS and FedEx) don't completely disassemble and reassemble any of their airplanes. So it's no wonder that they can pay their line mechanics much higher hourly wages - they have relatively few of them and the companies can share some of their overhaul savings with those line mechanics by paying them substantially more than AA.

I guess Spirit Airlines can pay their AMT's $65.00/HR because they have fewer of them that does SWA. This is how ridiculous the FEWER AMT's argument is. A person should be paid for their skills and abilities not how many of them are at an employer.
 

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