First Class and Premium Passengers

[pricklyheat]

With over ten thousands posts regarding AA on your board it is hard to hide from the major search engines, but if I may as a paying business class passenger put my two cents in.

I read in the WS Journal and many other major news publications that your new CEO released his cookie cutter plan to save the airline. I could apply that plan to selling lemonade on the corner, give me some meat and potatoes please.

Well anyway you are doing a very good job of violating a tenent of the plan on a consistent basis and would like to share a business passengers point of view.

Fly Smart by giving customers what they value

I was sitting in the boarding area waiting for my flight to Dallas on a Tuesday morning in St. Louis. The gate agent made a very impressive announcement that caught my attention. Ladies and Gentleman, we would like to extend a special heart felt welcome to the over fifty-five advantage, one world, etc. members on board our flight this morning. We sincerely thank you. Wow, I thought, recognition...it is a start to earning the business class passengers business back. I really do favor flying AA over the discounters when possible. BUT

I noticed several, ten or more crew and flight attendant employees in uniform checking in at the gate and recieving boarding passes, or maybe they were just standby passes, not sure. The boarding process began and the agent called for the first class passengers. I could not believe the amount of employees who got up. Well maybe they were just ignoring the order of boarding and were heading toward the back to stay out of the way. WRONG

Being one of the fifty-five advantage members when my boarding group was called you could have knocked me down with a feather when I turned the corner to walk down the aisle. Ten or more employees sitting in first class.

Way to go AA

We discussed this amongst as many passengers who would participate on the way to Dallas and they said they have seen this quite often. I have to admit I have never seen it this bad, but I have seen it.

All I am looking for on this board is a brief explanation of the logic behind this practice.

Thank You.

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/31/2003 12:28:09 PM pricklyheat wrote:



I noticed several, ten or more crew and flight attendant employees in uniform checking in at the gate and recieving boarding passes, or maybe they were just standby passes, not sure. The boarding process began and the agent called for the first class passengers. I could not believe the amount of employees who got up. Well maybe they were just ignoring the order of boarding and were heading toward the back to stay out of the way. WRONG

Being one of the fifty-five advantage members when my boarding group was called you could have knocked me down with a feather when I turned the corner to walk down the aisle. Ten or more employees sitting in first class.

Way to go AA

We discussed this amongst as many passengers who would participate on the way to Dallas and they said they have seen this quite often. I have to admit I have never seen it this bad, but I have seen it.

All I am looking for on this board is a brief explanation of the logic behind this practice.



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I AM NOT AN AMR EMPLOYEE. Now that the disclaimer is done:

Will you please explain to the rest of the board all the perks that go along with YOUR job, all the little things that YOU negotiated for yourself. At Microsoft, they get thousands of dollars worth of very cheap software per year. Maybe you should go over there and complain that it's not "fair" that you have to pay for software while they get it very cheap. IT'S A PERK OF THE JOB. Can we all share in the perks of YOUR job? When can we come to your home and pick them up? The company allows them to travel in otherwise EMPTY FC seats to and from WORK (you said they were in uniform), and on vacation. Maybe they were a flight crew deadheading to fly a trip from the next station. Would yourather the crew be fully rested for YOUR flight (having relaxed in FC) or fatigued from riding in the back between two ladies on the way to a Jenny Craig conferance because some FF thinks he should get a FREE upgrade instead? Considering the PAYCUT they just took to keep YOUR fares low, you should have shook all their hands on the way top the back. Did you attempt to upgrade? Did you use any of your miles? What should the airline do, give you free miles AND unlimited free upgrade to FC, all for whatever below cost price your company is able to negotiate for the COACH SEAT THEY BOUGHT? If you want a FC seat, by all means, go complain to the people responsible for putting you there, YOUR OWN COMPANY (at least you got free extra leg room). Money for Nuttin Chicks for free, right?

 

[AAmech]

I'm curious as to why this bothered you so much? What was the problem? On AA and all other airlines if a seat is goes unsold an employee can fly in it. On AA if an employee wants to fly in a FC seat he/she is charged a larger fee (usually double) and the dresscode is stricter (no jeans). If the flight is empty enough and the agent is confident there will be no upgrades they will issue boarding passes early and the employee will board with our customers as their pass permits. I'm really interested in hearing why this got you so worked up! This is nothing new!

By the way THANKS FOR FLYING AA!! I appreciate the business!

 

[pricklyheat]

Double what fee. Please spare me the tears. 10 employees with their baggage, flight suit cases and etc. only because they dont trust their own baggage system doesnt leave much room for the paying first class passenger. One passenger had to give his only carry-on to the FA for landing and take off because it wouldnt fit under his seat. On landing she didnt get it back fast enough for him to escape with the rest of the employees ( i mean first class) so he had to wait.

What bothered me. I will tell. Common freakin sense. That is what your industry, your workforce, and your management lack.

Thank You

Busdriver I believe you are an employee. Want some free software? Pirate it off the internet.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

 

[FWAAA]

Disclaimer: I am not an employee of AMR nor any of its subsidiaries.

I fly roughly 150k miles per year on AA and upgrade when I please. As an EXP since inception of the program in 1998, and PLAT before that, I have never been denied an upgrade when I requested one.

I don''t always upgrade, and would only upgrade STL-DFW if it were part of a much longer trip for which I had used a VIP03 or miles (so it would be no addl cost) or if I were on a Y or B fare, which would make it free as well.

Although I have frequently seen uniformed employees (and non-uniformed employees) when I am in First, I have never witnessed anything resembling "Employee Class" like some have hinted exists at UAL.

By the way - that''s where Busdrvr works - at UAL, not AA.

I talk with numerous other AA elites, and none has ever reported being denied an upgrade because of employees getting the First Class seats ahead of customers.

I don''t begrudge the employees the First Class seats - they are free to sit in them if they are otherwise empty (the pilots contract provides them, no??)

Some pax think that coach pax should be upgraded for free over employees - I strongly disagree with that. If AA gave out F for free, who would ever pay for it (thru full F, or Y or B or purchases of stickers)??

AA may have its warts, but employees displacing pax in First Class just isn''t one of them.

Check out FlyerTalk.com - the American and UAL fora are the most popular - and you will find that nobody (I mean, nobody) ever complains about employees in First Class on the AA board (the UAL board is a different story). And there are lots of AA elite whiners there who would certainly complain if it happened. But it doesn''t.

 

[Mach85ER]

"Please spare me the tears. 10 employees with their baggage, flight suit cases and etc. only because they dont trust their own baggage system doesnt leave much room for the paying first class passenger."


pricklyheat,

Your perceptions are incorrect. Never in 13 years as an AA pilot has an agent given me FC over a revenue passenger. On the contrary, I have been pulled out of my cushy seat and sent back to 35E for a last minute FC pax more than once.

I have also been pulled out of my seat to man another flight which is one reason why our bags stay with us and not checked. I''d doubt you''d like a 25 minute delay to fish a AA pilots flight bag out of a cargo bin after he was reassigned from deadheading on your flight to another. In other cases your flight would get cancelled because the pilots added time at the bag pickup would bust duty days. That is a couple of reasons, there are a few more. None of them would benefit your traveling if crews checked their bags.

 

[MiAAmi]

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On 5/31/2003 3:22:47 PM pricklyheat wrote:

Double what fee. Please spare me the tears. 10 employees with their baggage, flight suit cases and etc. only because they dont trust their own baggage system doesnt leave much room for the paying first class passenger. One passenger had to give his only carry-on to the FA for landing and take off because it wouldnt fit under his seat. On landing she didnt get it back fast enough for him to escape with the rest of the employees ( i mean first class) so he had to wait.

What bothered me. I will tell. Common freakin sense. That is what your industry, your workforce, and your management lack.

Thank You

Busdriver I believe you are an employee. Want some free software? Pirate it off the internet.

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I think Mr Prickly just wants a free upgrade before they offer any F/C seats to Deadheading crews or Non Revenue Pax. He doesn''t realize that even as non-revs we have to pay a service charge (making the seat somewhat revenue). Mr Prickly comes across like alot of Frequent Flyers, they need FREE upgrades to feel appreciated. The fact that one of our own employees is sitting there before he has been offered a FREE upgrade must really irk him.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 6/1/2003 8:35:15 AM MiAAmi wrote:

I think Mr Prickly just wants a free upgrade before they offer any F/C seats to Deadheading crews or Non Revenue Pax. He doesn't realize that even as non-revs we have to pay a service charge (making the seat somewhat revenue). Mr Prickly comes across like alot of Frequent Flyers, they need FREE upgrades to feel appreciated. The fact that one of our own employees is sitting there before he has been offered a FREE upgrade must really irk him.

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Bingo on that MiAAmi. The "loyalty programs" have morphed themselves into something that wasn't intended at their inception - upgrades (which I had recieved without requesting from AA) were offered when FC wasn't sold out and full "Y" class passengers (of which I was one) were offered first class to free up coach class seats for oversales/standby's. But today, the guy who had been flying on full Y class is now flying on the same $199 transcon that Joe Leisure and the family are on, and they still expect the upgrade to first class. As far as I am concerned, if first class isn't sold out, then divvying out of the upgrades should go to full Y fare passengers (after all, they do deserve a little something extra if they are paying a full fare), and if there are seats remaining, they should go to employees of the airline operating the flight first, then any employees of other airlines who need a ride. After all...isn't the goal to encourage your passengers to pay a fare that covers your costs? I don't think that folks who paid full F class for a ticket are "annoyed" that the person sitting next to them is an airline employe. Hell, I'd be more annoyed if the person sitting next to me paid $199 for his ticket an upgraded.

Make the upgrades a wee tad harder to get and implement a system wide value pricing scheme. But the problem is, too many "elites" who are paying a fare that loses the airline money will balk when one of "their" perks is tampered with. Just because a butt is in a seat doesn't mean that the airline is making money on the ticket, no matter how many trips they take.. I think America West and Airtran have almost got the idea - reduce the fares for full F class (or biz class) to encourage someone who really wants a FC seat to pay for it, and limit upgrades (which AWA is pretty timid about) to folks who are letting the airline make some money. For example, just take fare paid and divide it by distance of the flights paid for. If he answer is less than the airlines CASM, then sorry....no upgrades today.

 

[MiAAmi]

A side note. The crew working the all nighter from Honolulu will deadhead to DFW after working that flight. That would account for the 10 crewmembers in F/C. And they would only be accomodated in F/C if there is no Frequent Flyers requesting a legitimate upgrade.

 

[pricklyheat]

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On 6/1/2003 9:12:28 AM MiAAmi wrote:

A side note. The crew working the all nighter from Honolulu will deadhead to DFW after working that flight. That would account for the 10 crewmembers in F/C. And they would only be accomodated in F/C if there is no Frequent Flyers requesting a legitimate upgrade.

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Finally, someone hit the nail on the head. You should have seen the way the blonde hair and blue eyes flashed to the gate agent to get these seats for herself and her buddies after her oh so long flight from Honolulu. One more time folks, for the ones in the rafters not paying attention here. I normally never complain and have witnessed this time and time again, but this day it only stood out because of the pre-boarding comment about the fifty-five premium passengers. Then to get to the aircraft and see all those employees, that is my beef.

By no means am I looking for a free upgrade. I am just trying to enlighten you the employee and the rest of the paying passengers as to environment existing in the major carrier airline industry today.

There is one more point I am waiting on to come up here. Hint: WORKRULES

By the way. What is a legitimate upgrade? I am curious.

Thank You.

 

[Wild Onion]

O.K. folks, easy here. This is the way it works...

Flight crews fly positive space when deadheading. They show up at the gate and check in for a coach seat. Then they are placed on a wait list for an upgrade (which is free if available).

SABRE automatically assigns a priority code (UPGE) to the upgrade request. All revenue passengers'' upgrade request are AUTOMATICALLY given a higher priority (EP=UPG1, PL=UPG2, AG=UPG3, reg adv, UPG).

SABRE doe allow a gate agent to skip down the list, but no agent would ever do that. Management is all over agents for everything. Agents are being written up (remember, there''s no union protection), for every little miscue. Jobs are at stake and everyone knows it.

Bottom line to the revenue passenger is this: If a crew member got an upgrade over you, then you weren''t entitled to it.

 

[pricklyheat]

Thanks Wild Onion,

But, You are telling me that out of 55 plus Advantage Members. A number high enough to warrant comment by the gate agent. No one qualified for a premium seat over an employee? Ten employees in First Class? A gentleman having to hold his only carry-on because those 10 loaded all the overheads to the limit (more than 2 carry-ons on a full flight I might add) and then had to wait at the gate upon arrival for the FA to secure it from behind the last row of FC seats. Unacceptable.

TRY AGAIN

 

[tadjr]

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On 6/1/2003 11:31:42 AM pricklyheat wrote:

Thanks Wild Onion,

But, You are telling me that out of 55 plus Advantage Members. A number high enough to warrant comment by the gate agent. No one qualified for a premium seat over an employee? Ten employees in First Class? A gentleman having to hold his only carry-on because those 10 loaded all the overheads to the limit (more than 2 carry-ons on a full flight I might add) and then had to wait at the gate upon arrival for the FA to secure it from behind the last row of FC seats. Unacceptable.

TRY AGAIN

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Disclaimer- I am not an AA employee, but a gate agent for another carrier.

To answer the question about none of the 55 being able to upgrade over crewmembers, that is a distinct possibility. The agent said Advantage members, which includes ALL passengers who are signed up for Frequent Flyer points. The agent didnt say 55 Advantage Plus/Platinum/Gold, etc. Many of these passengers would be Joe Schmoe frequent flyers who have not attained the status to upgrade off of most fares. You can often have 50 to 60 "Frequent Flyers" and only 4 or 5 elites on a flight. It might also have been that some of the "elites", if there were more, were traveling on non updgradeable type tickets (free award tickets, etc). So yes, it is highly possible that NO ONE else on the plane was entitled to or asked for if they could have, been upgraded. How many "regular" passengers were in the First Class cabin and were there any open seats left?

 

[flydcoop]

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On 6/1/2003 957 AM pricklyheat wrote:

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Finally, someone hit the nail on the head. You should have seen the way the blonde hair and blue eyes flashed to the gate agent to get these seats for herself and her buddies after her oh so long flight from Honolulu. One more time folks, for the ones in the rafters not paying attention here. I normally never complain and have witnessed this time and time again, but this day it only stood out because of the pre-boarding comment about the fifty-five premium passengers. Then to get to the aircraft and see all those employees, that is my beef.

By no means am I looking for a free upgrade. I am just trying to enlighten you the employee and the rest of the paying passengers as to environment existing in the major carrier airline industry today.

There is one more point I am waiting on to come up here. Hint: WORKRULES

By the way. What is a legitimate upgrade? I am curious.

Thank You.


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PricklyHeat,

Based on the above text and your other post, "What do F/As make these days?" You seem to have an issue with F/As in general.

Wild Onion and Mr. Marky explained the hierarchy of upgrades quite well. With your above quote, it sounds like an upgrade was deserved "just because".

A legitimate upgrade involves certificates, mileage, and electronic upgrades (the former "stickers"). If you are on a "K" fare and purchase electronic upgrades, you can sit in F/C cheaper than many who are seated in Coach. Pretty sweet perk.

You don''t go buy a Volkswagen and demand a Porsche "just because" it''s sitting there. Nor do you purchase hamburger and request steak since it has not sold yet.

Others have asked what industry you work in and what you make, which you have neatly side-stepped...I will ask you again. It''s obviously not the Tech Sector since you encourage "pirating software".

Why are you waiting for our workrules to be brought up? Why do you care?

Just curious,

Coop