First Class - Going, Going, Gone?

[BoeingBoy]

Maybe this should go in the "How to shoot yourself in the foot" file....

1st-class cabins feel the squeeze

US Airways cuts the number of first-class seats because too many people were upgrading from coach.

By STEVE HUETTEL, Times Staff Writer
Published April 13, 2004

Times are tough for US Airways employees, investors and suppliers as the airline struggles to fend off low-fare competitors and cut costs.

Now, some of the airline's best customers are grumbling, too, as US Airways makes it harder to get their most coveted perk: a roomy seat in the front of the plane.

Article

Jim

 

[firstamendment]

Let's see...pre- 1989, there was no FC on USAir. They made tons of cash and nobody complained. Now we are losing a boatload of money and offering First Class and everyone is in a panic about no FC. Give me a break. Passengers fly who ever has the best flight time and price. If US would simply take a few seats out and make the entire ac comfy, nobody would care. I still contend we need to symplify the fares. AM peak, PM peak, off-peak and redeye....no more, no less. If the biz travelors start seeing positive results in their wallets and we offer more frequency, they will soon forget. I think there are a few vocal FF's who will huff and puff, but will get over it. Sorry FF's, one man's opinion.

 

[ClueByFour]

If the biz travelors start seeing positive results in their wallets and we offer more frequency, they will soon forget. I think there are a few vocal FF's who will huff and puff, but will get over it. Sorry FF's, one man's opinion.

The reduction in service and overall value of the US FF program, combined with the existing reduction in FC has directly or indirectly led me (a US VFF) to spend $20k or so this year with other airlines. When price is equal, the loyalty differential is often perks.

Forget FC--sit in E+ or an MRTC seat and then compare that to the back of a U 733 or 734. It's a no-brainer.

 

[mweiss]

Clue is right. I switched airline loyalties this year specifically because of FC upgrades.

 

[700UW]

Let's see...pre- 1989, there was no FC on USAir. They made tons of cash and nobody complained. Now we are losing a boatload of money and offering First Class and everyone is in a panic about no FC. Give me a break. Passengers fly who ever has the best flight time and price. If US would simply take a few seats out and make the entire ac comfy, nobody would care. I still contend we need to symplify the fares. AM peak, PM peak, off-peak and redeye....no more, no less. If the biz travelors start seeing positive results in their wallets and we offer more frequency, they will soon forget. I think there are a few vocal FF's who will huff and puff, but will get over it. Sorry FF's, one man's opinion.

US was not as large back in 1989 and they did not service as many long haul routes too.

 

[firstamendment]

US was not as large back in 1989 and they did not service as many long haul routes too.

Well i don't know what map you're looking at, but we barely touch the west coast and the only 757's with those hated 8 seats is Vegas.

Frankly, I DO NOT KNOW what the FF's want. For all of you that seem to think FC is so important, where is the money to give all of you everything you want without more paycuts from the employees. I want the 2 f/a's there to give you a predeparture drink on that 26 seat a321. I want to offer you a glass of wine in real glass. "give us WiFi" That takes money. "Update the website" That takes money. "Give us a JB like IFI sytem" Hey, guess what? That takes money too. And let us not forget the 20 year old uniforms the f/a's have been in. Nothing there. It takes money. Want those ac interiors to look better? $$$$$$$$ Tired of flaking paint jobs on the a/c? Forget it, it takes $$$$$. This has been crammed down the throats of every employee for the last 15 years and I'm sick of it.

No other company rewards you in such a foolish way as airline ff programs. Please name one. And please name a company that will truly offer you a full refund because you were inconvienced. If I go to a diner or coffee shop ,maybe they will give me a free purchase after 10...no special sitting..no special seats...no number directly to the ceo. Hell, Amtrak, the saving grace of the northeast corridor doesn't go to the extremes.

I curse American Airlines for starting this burdened dawg called the FF Program and I equally curse the non-profitable FC dinosaur system that does nothing but create havoc in boarding and producing some really inappropriate behavior. You guys will blast me away with these remarks but ENOUGH!! Please don't give me the "Time to find a new job" BS. This is not about liking or disliking a job. This is a FOR profit company and I stand by facts none of you can disbute. The network carriers are going down. The LLC are profitable. Ok, smart men and women with your impressive degrees, please tell me...what the hell DO you expect the network carriers to do?

 

[geo1004]

If anyone at US thinks they can go all-coach domestically and keep even a fraction of their VFF'er they are crazy. The idea that VFFers will choose US's coach product over that of the competition is ludicrous. US's coach product does not compare favorably (seat comfort, pitch, service, et al).

US goes out of its way to tout the Star Alliance and its agreements with UA and LH as beneficial to the business traveller while behind the scenes they have mechanics ripping out the one real perk that keeps business travellers on the plane... duh!

 

[USFlyer]

firstamendment -

Hotels reward us, rental car agencies reward us, department stores reward us by sending us special discounts, restaurants reward us if we become a member by sending gift certs throughout the year, etc. What I have a problem with is FFs who expect filet mignon when they fly on a $199 ticket. Give us the seat, give us a free IFC meal and be done with it -- just called it something other than "First class".

 

[geo1004]

No other company rewards you in such a foolish way as airline ff programs. Please name one.

This is compensation for the idiotic fares structures and the rules that passengers have to deal with. How long do you think a restaurant would stay in business if it charged its customers the way the legacy carriers charge their passengers? Let's see... pay for dinner 21 days in advance and it's $200. Pay for dinner the day of the meal it's $850. You say you don't want to wait until your dinner reservation this evening at 7 pm but would rather join us for lunch? Well that will be $25 change fee please.

 

[mweiss]

firstamendment, it's all about value. Period. When a customer makes a choice between two competing offers, the customer chooses based on value: how much one is getting for the money.

Therefore, when a customer is making a choice, there are cost factors and benefit factors taken into consideration.

COST FACTORS
- Money
- Time (i.e., how long does it take to get to the destination)
- Hassle

BENEFIT FACTORS
- Timeliness (i.e., does the flight depart or arrive when I need it to)
- Special treatment (i.e., Elite status benefits)
- Comfort (i.e., seat pitch, seat width, footrests, etc., etc.)
- Food
- Entertainment
- Stored value (i.e., frequent flier miles)

The hard part, of course, is that each customer values each of those components differently than other customers. And they may or may not decide that the additional benefits are worth the additional cost.

Ultimately, however, we all determine the value of our purchase (economists call this "utility") and engage in the transactions accordingly.

Businesses must learn how to minimize the non-monetary customer cost factors while maximizing utility gain from customer benefits. The successful businesses do this better than their competitors.

 

[bofie]

Exactly right. FFs choose airlines based on who makes their life the easiest. We evaluate schedule, cost and comfort. Most of us have great discretion in who we fly and you can be sure comfort is an important consideration. Speaking as a 6'2" 200lb person, I cannot fit comfortably for a 2 hour flight in the coach cabin of U planes. The seats just ain't wide enough and if the swine in front reclines there is no room to even work.

I don't care about the plastic glasses and I don't care about the hideous food, but I do care about space to work and relax.

Lose FC and you lose me and 150K miles/year, none of which is on bargain fares.

 

[RWerksman]

Frankly, I DO NOT KNOW what the FF's want. For all of you that seem to think FC is so important, where is the money to give all of you everything you want without more paycuts from the employees.

I find this post absolutely ridiculous.


I will tell you what FFs want...

- A comfy seat with space to work
- A place to put luggage overhead
- A flight attendant to take care of you well
- Drinks on short flights, and a somewhat nice meal on longer ones
- Maybe a free flight now and then

- A "we appreciate you flying US" feeling instilled


All this other crap like DirecTV and Wifi goes to bolster the last point. Going to an F8 configuration and skimping hard core on the FC meals anger VFFs. When they get angry, they fly other airlines.

When you think that FFs are all about price, you are absolutely foolish. A great deal of VFFs fly the airlines they want to -- after all, they are not the ones paying for it.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone name one company that survives after alienating its best customers?

 

[ClueByFour]

No other company rewards you in such a foolish way as airline ff programs. Please name one.

Every major hotel chain.

Every major car rental chain.

They both do this because absent the programs, travel is a commodity.

I don't know for a fact about Dividend Miles, but it's a published fact that AAdvantage is one of the more profitable chunks of AMR.

 

[700UW]

Even sandwich shops like Jersey Mike's offers a free sandwich after buying 12. It is in all aspects of life where you get free offers or incentives.

 

[PITbull]

Let's see...pre- 1989, there was no FC on USAir. They made tons of cash and nobody complained. Now we are losing a boatload of money and offering First Class and everyone is in a panic about no FC. Give me a break. Passengers fly who ever has the best flight time and price. If US would simply take a few seats out and make the entire ac comfy, nobody would care. I still contend we need to symplify the fares. AM peak, PM peak, off-peak and redeye....no more, no less. If the biz travelors start seeing positive results in their wallets and we offer more frequency, they will soon forget. I think there are a few vocal FF's who will huff and puff, but will get over it. Sorry FF's, one man's opinion.

Keep in mind that USAirways MUST create a demand for their product, if they don't we will be no different in product offered than the LCCs that are out there.

Providing first class, seat assignments, upgrades last minute for f/c sets us apart for the very reasons customers cited in the article above.