First Up Program

[jimcfs]

It will be interesting how Tempe responds. The company is now making quite a bit of money off seats that used to cost more than it made. An example is US305 LGA/FLL. This past week LGA sold 53 First Ups on this particular flight. Thats $5,300.00 x 52 ( some weeks more / some weeks less ) for just one flight !

One can also look at this and say look at how many elites US (both the CCY and Tempe based) have driven away to have at least 53 seats available to non-elite pax. Given that this is a busy time of year to Florida, how many former US elites took their business to JetBlue or other choices?

 

[LGA / 037]

When you address Tempe you may want to mention that Inventory is part of the problem also. As an example again I will use LGA/FLL. Historically, very few Full Fare First class seats have been sold in this market, but availability always shows
F7 P1 A2 E0. When you call the CHPR desk or Res unless you have a full fare tkt they cant give you that upgrade due to E being zeroed outfor the flight. Each market is different and unique and Inventory management needs to adjust their upgrade avails to each particular market instead of what seems to be a standard availability for first.

 

[Art at ISP]

LGA/037,

Did your station sell the First Ups before or after you cleared Preferreds on the standby list? If you did it after you accomodated the standby preferred customers, then that's fine, and more power to you.

If you did the first ups BEFORE clearing the preferred standbys, then that is a problem--contrary to company procedure, and the risk of continuing to do that has been mentioned here ad nauseum.

We do not begrudge the company for trying to earn a little more revenue. But do not deny your most loyal customers who provide the company with an inordinate percentage of OVERALL revenue a perk or benefit which is published.

And yes Doc, go for it....and we'll continue to report you every time....I hope the extra $$ in your pocket is worth the potential millions it could cost the company.

My best to you all....

 

[markkus757]

I'll try to tie in Piney's concerns and Barbells last comments about wanting the higher yield passengers' loyalty and put another spin on this. If no one has seen this, the airlines are all flying around record load factors, even if those stats are skewed by more regional partner flights for the mainlines. Too many low fare passengers are still flying around and the majors are still having a problem justifying all of the service they provide in certain markets they are not successfully operating(profit). Some are necessary evils and some are there to tick off the competition. I've seen US try to do a better job at matching capacity to the demand they want to serve. It is important to fly the most passengers you can make a profit from, not the most passengers. If the premiums are going to stick around, US management must provide better communication and direction to make any incremental program successful without driving the core away. Going back to Barbell's point, they need to take this a step further and target the higher yield for markets like PHL - SFO by giving the passenger more reason to fly on US for this route. A nonstop at a reasonable fare is a good start, but they must be able to take passengers away from everyone else, and a better product would help everyone as long as it adds value and not necessarily cost. I know everyone thinks they only have to worry about what things cost, but investing in good improvements adds loyalty and value when appropriate.

 

[Art at ISP]

markkus,

You basically hit the nail on the head. The problem is that the airlines are going for the number of passengers, and are not doing anything to attract the higher yield passenger, with the possible exception of UA, which is investing in amenities and perks for the frequent business travelers.

Right now US has done NOTHING to attract or retain the high yield business traveler. The "tweaks" to the DM programs and on board product indicate that this is not a priority, and that they would prefer to have 3 seats filled which lose money than 1 which is profitable.

It goes back to what I call the "Crazy Eddie Hypothesis". Those on the east coast may remember Crazy Eddie, a chain of stereo stores who sold product at ridiculous prices regardless of whether or not they were making a profit. When asked why he knowingly sells a product below cost, Eddie once said, "It's ok--cause if I sell 100 of them I make money". I would call this logic flawed at best. Also, one will note that Crazy Eddie is not only no longer around, he did prison time for a big stock scam regarding his company..

No one begrudges the airline's need to make money. Again--RATIONAL fares would do more to this end than nickel and diming passengers.

Last year I spent about $73,000 on airfare. I would say about 85% was on US. So I contributed roughly $62,000 to the bottom line during the year. Multiply me by let's say 3000 who would care enough to leave US if they lost a seat regularly to First Up. Using my revenue figures alone, that would lose almost $2m in revenue right there.

This issue is important enough to me (and to MOST of the other FFOCUS members I have spoken to) that it would cause us to move on if it continued unabated.

Right now the bottom line is that the actions of SOME agents are contrary to published policy, and have a potential to cost much more revenue than it brings in. IF Tempe wants to turn a blind eye or change policy so that this the correct procedure, that is their right to do so. But if they want to charge for F, they better have a product worth charging for--and right now they don't. Conversely, if they want to reduce their service and perk levels to LCC levels, they MUST reduce fares accordingly, which they have not done.

I think this issue has run its course on here. We are in the process of communicating with Tempe on this and other issues, and I will be happy to report back the results of that communication.

My best to you all.....

 

[Hope777]

Just remember something, Thru BK22 the Employees have lost roughtly 40% of their pay. In MOST CASES, every little bit helps. Some employees have lost EVERYTHING!!! All you are losing is a Big Seat. Dont take this as if I dont care about what is happening, because I do, but I also care that some employees no longer have a home to call their own.

 

[Art at ISP]

Hope777,

I understand your point entirely, and I have the utmost respect and compassion for what you and your colleagues have endured over the past few years. At the same time, does that make it right for them to circumvent published procedure to earn an extra $5 or so, while at the same time risking the loss of business from a customer who is most likely part of a group who helped keep the company from going under in the first place?

In a perfect world the employees would all earn a little more, and I hope at least they are getting the respect and appreciation from Tempe that we the customers have continued to offer all these years. I would also hope that some of that appreciation is financial, but not at the cost of alienating customers who have contributed financially to the survival of the company.

I really hope there are those agents who make a small fortune by selling first ups once the preferred customers are accomodated. But I can't sit by and watch loyal customers being denied a published perk/benefit, while other folks who have shown NO loyalty other than to the lowest price get the benefit of the wider seat (that's about all there is now).

There may be no right answer to this question, and there might be valid points on both sides, but ultimately the customer will vote with his wallet.

Time will tell.

 

[Hope777]

Art, I DO NOT think employees should by pass procedures, but I know why they do. Personally, I would rather See Employees make $2.00-$3.00 per OVERSIZED Bag charged. Some Employees do not follow this procedure either. In our city, I would estimate only 20-25% of Oversized Luggage is charged or tagged correctly. But back to First Up, if an Employee Struggling to Feed His/Her Family can make an extra $25.00 per week, I understand why they do it. But as I have said in the Past, ART - THANK YOU for your continued support and SORRY if you are caught in the Middle.

Ed

 

[Seatacus]

markkus,

The problem is that the airlines are going for the number of passengers, and are not doing anything to attract the higher yield passenger,

Art I'd like to add to this statement, the airlines should be going after the higher yield "repeat" passenger. Getting money from someone once is not as good as getting money from someone time after time.

 

[Doc]

markkus,


IF Tempe wants to turn a blind eye or change policy so that this the correct procedure, that is their right to do so. But if they want to charge for F, they better have a product worth charging for--and right now they don't. Conversely, if they want to reduce their service and perk levels to LCC levels, they MUST reduce fares accordingly, which they have not done.

I think this issue has run its course on here. We are in the process of communicating with Tempe on this and other issues, and I will be happy to report back the results of that communication.

My best to you all.....

This is my last response on this issue. I am sure there are some that are not doing their job correctly and I know Tempe is working on it. I think U should be able to sell their product and US1’s,2’s,3’s should get what ever is left. I know some don’t agree but that’s my opinion I was never taught giving something away was good business. I never sell all the seats on any flight and by the way I always have US3’s on my flight sitting in first and US1’s in coach and the US3 checked in at home.
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

By the way ART at ISP we are a LCC or haven’t you heard. Our ticket prices are very competitive and our service has improved tremendously we have a great route structure that sells itself. The business flyers I know have to by tickets based on priced and sometimes don’t even have a choice who they fly it’s all based on cost not whether you are US1

 

[bofie]

The business flyers I know have to by tickets based on priced and sometimes don’t even have a choice who they fly it’s all based on cost not whether you are US1

Many business fliers have the rank to pick who we fly and to have great leeway on price; and it is not all price that matters, it is also value.

 

[US1YFARE]

Just remember something, Thru BK22 the Employees have lost roughtly 40% of their pay. In MOST CASES, every little bit helps. Some employees have lost EVERYTHING!!! All you are losing is a Big Seat. Dont take this as if I dont care about what is happening, because I do, but I also care that some employees no longer have a home to call their own.

well, maybe you folks should start looking to your management...when they fly, they take up 4 or more seats in FC--not only are elites losing those upgrades, but you are losing the opportunity to sell the First Upgrade. I think we deserve the seat in FC more than DP and his entourage. If DP thinks the Y product is so unbearable, maybe he should change it.

I think U should be able to sell their product and US1’s,2’s,3’s should get what ever is left.

They are selling their product. Not enough people are buying the full fare F tickets or the discounted F tickets to fill the cabin. You are so missing the point of upgrades for the elites--you obviously are someone who does not understand the purpose of a loyalty system. you must work for your new management team. If you sell upgrades before upgrading me, I will politely confront you, report you to your manager, and report you to Tempe.

But back to First Up, if an Employee Struggling to Feed His/Her Family can make an extra $25.00 per week, I understand why they do it.

People keep doing this, and you'll have bigger problems. You thought people freaked over no rollover, geez louise, you haven't seen anything yet. Even Tempe has said that "upgrades" are golden.

 

[Art at ISP]

This is my last response on this issue. I am sure there are some that are not doing their job correctly and I know Tempe is working on it. I think U should be able to sell their product and US1’s,2’s,3’s should get what ever is left. I know some don’t agree but that’s my opinion I was never taught giving something away was good business. I never sell all the seats on any flight and by the way I always have US3’s on my flight sitting in first and US1’s in coach and the US3 checked in at home.
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

By the way ART at ISP we are a LCC or haven’t you heard. Our ticket prices are very competitive and our service has improved tremendously we have a great route structure that sells itself. The business flyers I know have to by tickets based on priced and sometimes don’t even have a choice who they fly it’s all based on cost not whether you are US1

That happens because the US1 did not get on the airport standby list manually by an agent, while the US3 possibly double checked with an agent personally as well as checking in online.


Doc, you are WRONG. US says they want to be an LCC, and they are beginning to act like one, although their fares are definitely NOT competitive and are more in line with the other legacy carriers, NOT other LCC's.

Again I repeat, you're entitled to your opinion. Lucky for US there aren't more employees who think like you, or there would probably not be a US Airways today.

Nuff said here...we'll let you know what happens when we take it up with Tempe.

And finally--Hope777---we're almost on the same page--no harm no foul--I still owe you a libation one of these days.

My best to you all.....

 

[wench]

AIRMAIL,
Thanks so much!

Free Free Free!!!

Ditto..

If ya dont get your stinking f/c seat, stop whining!

Pure and SIMPLE!

How do people handle a crisis if they can't accept f/c is FULL?

 

[JAXPax]

Many business fliers have the rank to pick who we fly and to have great leeway on price; and it is not all price that matters, it is also value.

The route I fly very frequently is JAX-PHL. I have the benefit of advance purchase. I fly US by choice, and a lot of that is the upgrade that comes with it.

Take away the upgrade, why not go fly Southwest for $20-40 less? You get more legroom and better inflight service in coach. Plus with online check-in, you can get an A boarding card relatively easily. With increasing frequencies on the non-stop, Southwest is becoming more and more convenient.

Recently on a JAX-PHL flight, the gate agent was able to sell FOUR First-Ups for $100 each. I sat next to one of these on the B737.... he wasn't real happy. Wanted to know where breakfast was on this two hour long 8am flight. Asked me what I paid for my upgrade. My response? "I didn't, and I wouldn't."

I buy the $25 500-milers on AA frequently. Then again, I'd get fed on a flight of similar length.