Future Airline Disaster

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

This bus was maintained by the same mentality that Northwest Airlines management has toward aircraft maintenance. Will we see a Northwest Jet burned to a crisp like this bus,because Northwest threw safety out the window all in the name of cheap labor?

 

[FWAAA]

:down:

For comparison sake, here's an airplane that was maintained by union labor at American Airlines, not scab labor at NW:

Not AA's Finest Hour

Maybe we'll see a NW airplane burned to a crisp as a direct result of its maintenance practices; looks like AA beat NW to the punch by at least 26 years. 🙁

 

[TWU informer]

Yeah that's it!

Don't be concerned about aircraft maintenance issues and air disasters.

It has happened before.... :blink:

What a way to respond to aircraft maintenance safety concerns. FWAAA is the aircraft industry hero.

 

[FWAAA]

For a variety of reasons, I don't fly airlines that are experiencing labor troubles, especially mechanics strikes/lockouts.

Yeah, it's happened before, and it will happen again. Maybe via the scab labor at NW and maybe the nonscabs at another airline.

AA management and labor teamed up to bring us Flight 191. Far as I know, that didn't occur during any labor disputes at AA.

But to post a picture of a burned-out bus and proclaim that it was maintained using the same mentality as that held by NW management toward its airplanes? That deserved some comment.

 

[TWU informer]

For a variety of reasons, I don't fly airlines that are experiencing labor troubles, especially mechanics strikes/lockouts.

Yeah, it's happened before, and it will happen again. Maybe via the scab labor at NW and maybe the nonscabs at another airline.

AA management and labor teamed up to bring us Flight 191. Far as I know, that didn't occur during any labor disputes at AA.

But to post a picture of a burned-out bus and proclaim that it was maintained using the same mentality as that held by NW management toward its airplanes? That deserved some comment.

I am not sure, but I believe AA was doing the DC-10 engine change with an OEM approved process.

Maybe we could look at the NTSB report and see what is said about liability on FLT 191?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

FWAAA, let's get one thing straight here. The mechanics at AA had nothing to do with the disaster of AA 191. What were these mechanics supposed to do? They were following a procedure approved and demanded by AA engineering and management. A procedure that was copied from Continental Airlines,by the way. Your Wall Street "darling" Airtran is now headed by a guy known as "forklift" Joe Leonard. He got that name because he was one of the engineers at AA who went against McDonnell Douglas warnings and approved the engine-pylon procedure that led to the disaster. Instead of going to jail, he got to become a CEO of an airline. Only in corporate America!

FWAAA, obvisiously you don't have a clue to what your talking about, so why don't you stick to giving us inaccurate,false, or misleading analysis of the working of airline finances like you always do.

 

[TWU informer]

THE BUS

From the beginning, investigators have focused on the condition of the bus brakes. A motorist told investigators he motioned the driver to pull over shortly after seeing a rear wheel hub that was glowing red.

The Texas Department of Public Safety has said that the bus' right rear brakes failed because of the loss of bearings, and that the left rear brakes were "not maintained in good working order."

THE DC-10

The pylon was damaged due to an incorrectly executed engine removal procedure. The correct procedure called for removal of the engine prior to the removal of the engine pylon. To save time and costs, American Airlines instructed its mechanics to remove the engine together with the pylon all at one time. A large fork lift was used to hold the engine up while it was detached from the wing. During the procedure a crew shift change occurred, leaving the fork lift unmonitored for a period of time. A problem in the fork lift's hydraulic system caused it to tilt the engine while still under the wing. This exerted enough pressure on the engine pylon to create a large indentation and a serious fracture in its body. The fracture went unnoticed for several flights, getting worse with each flight that the plane had taken. During flight 191's takeoff, enough force was generated to finally cause the pylon to fail. With the failure of the rear pylon, the left engine detached from under the wing and tore away. With the loss of the engine and the position of the slats, the plane was destined for disaster. The NTSB concluded that given the circumstances of the situation, the pilots were not in any way to blame for the resulting accident.

Looks like MANAGEMENT INTRUCTIONS to me?

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA, let's get one thing straight here. The mechanics at AA had nothing to do with the disaster of AA 191. What were these mechanics supposed to do? They were following a procedure approved and demanded by AA engineering and management. A procedure that was copied from Continental Airlines,by the way.

FWAAA, obvisiously you don't have a clue to what your talking about, so why don't you stick to giving us inaccurate,false, or misleading analysis of the working of airline finances like you always do.

Jus' doin' my job, boss. :down:

Licensed aircraft mechaincs just do whatever the bossman says? Thought we could trust licensed aircraft mechanics to do the right thing. Figured the mechanics would object when their marching orders violated common sense. Guess I was wrong.

In my post, I acknowledged that management shared blame for the Flight 191 disaster. Perhaps even a majority of the blame. Never thought that labor was blameless in that tragedy. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Jus' doin' my job, boss. :down:

Licensed aircraft mechaincs just do whatever the bossman says? Thought we could trust licensed aircraft mechanics to do the right thing. Figured the mechanics would object when their marching orders violated common sense. Guess I was wrong.

Funny you should mention that, been down that road before and cost me a lot of money being on the street. I'm not the only one, I know many who have refused a direct order to accomplish what they considered an unsafe act and be fired. Some have gotten their own lawyers after the union walked away from them, others had 6 months off with no back pay, others never came back. Using the DC10 as an example, those AMT's had a two choices: listen to management like they did, or be fired. Being that the plane crashed, they will most likely get their job back. Say the plane doesn't crash, they are out of a job possibly forever. This is part of the problem of having a union that is in bed with the company, you have no neutral party to complain to. Oh, and forget about the FAA, bought and paid for.

BTW...It's much worse at these third party sweat shops both here and abroad. Whatever the boss says goes.

 

[Hackman]

Jus' doin' my job, boss. :down:

Licensed aircraft mechaincs just do whatever the bossman says? Thought we could trust licensed aircraft mechanics to do the right thing. Figured the mechanics would object when their marching orders violated common sense. Guess I was wrong.

In my post, I acknowledged that management shared blame for the Flight 191 disaster. Perhaps even a majority of the blame. Never thought that labor was blameless in that tragedy. Thanks for setting me straight.

So you can imagine, with all your boardroom savvy and swagger, if mistakes happen here at the "union" (I use that term very loosely with the twu and iam) carriers. Imagine what happens at the oversea's chop shop when the NWA's China bossman tells his $6hr mechanic for example, that a wrong fuel tube will go on that engine as directed, question it and you will be living in a cave instead of a high class mud hut after your terminated. What will the FAA do? Nothing.

Now, throw in some cheap scab maintenance and I'd say the chances of a smoking hole is very elevated.

Your refusal to fly on very troubled struck carrier such as NWA lead me to believe you are fairly smart. Don't let that go to your head now. 😉

 

[PlayTheOdds]

It is the mechanics responsibilty to do it correctly not managements. It is QC's responsibilty to insure it is done correctly not managements. It is the unions responsibilty to protect the mechanic during this type of scenario. There is always the FAA hotline. Quit trying to pass the buck.
The whole system failed here, starting with the guy with the wrench.

 

[PITMTC]

Do you guys want to know how this continued rhetoric reads to me? Probably not, but here it goes...
It reads as though you are preparing for one big "I told you so." If an accident indeed happens
and it is a direct result of replacement workers, the last thing I would be doing is gloating
about how right I were. Some read as if you are hoping it would happen.
It is a sad and terrible time for airlines, and mostly for airline employees. NW is in BK and doing
really bad and 90% of your board is all about the replacement workers. You keep pointing out
a/c incidents and the rest of the industry is getting the same percentage happen to them, but they
are not gloating on a board.
We have our own on the US board who couldn't wait to point out something that happened everytime
an a/c that came out of a vendor. When we took the work in-house and had the same issue.......nothing.
My point...quit wishing the worst to be proven right.
Focus on fixing the industry as it stands for employees. Arguing all day over 10 topics with replacment
workers will accomplish NOTHING!

 

[700UW]

Interesting thing is I did not see the news media cover any emergency landings like they did when ST MAE messed up the Airbii S-Checks?

First plane out of MAE had several emergency landings and another plane had one too.

And lets not talk about 709 and the missing girt bar latches and unrigged MED slide.

Yep ST MAE did a bang up job!

 

[RGM7]

Do you guys want to know how this continued rhetoric reads to me? Probably not, but here it goes...
It reads as though you are preparing for one big "I told you so." If an accident indeed happens
and it is a direct result of replacement workers, the last thing I would be doing is gloating
about how right I were. Some read as if you are hoping it would happen.
It is a sad and terrible time for airlines, and mostly for airline employees. NW is in BK and doing
really bad and 90% of your board is all about the replacement workers. You keep pointing out
a/c incidents and the rest of the industry is getting the same percentage happen to them, but they
are not gloating on a board.
We have our own on the US board who couldn't wait to point out something that happened everytime
an a/c that came out of a vendor. When we took the work in-house and had the same issue.......nothing.
My point...quit wishing the worst to be proven right.
Focus on fixing the industry as it stands for employees. Arguing all day over 10 topics with replacment
workers will accomplish NOTHING!

yep pretty sad that people are just sitting waiting for something bad to happen so they can come on the board to gloat.....hopefully we will never see that day!!!

 

[PITMTC]

Interesting thing is I did not see the news media cover any emergency landings like they did when ST MAE messed up the Airbii S-Checks?

First plane out of MAE had several emergency landings and another plane had one too.

And lets not talk about 709 and the missing girt bar latches and unrigged MED slide.

Yep ST MAE did a bang up job!

No where in my post did I say they did a good job nor did I while YOU were ranting about how bad a job they did back at our board.
My point is exactly what you have proven (Thank you very very very much). There are some who are just sitting around waiting for an opprotunity to gloat. Waiting for the moment to say "I told you so".
Don't let the facts get in your way!
As always you jump right in to stick your foot in your mouth.
God bless the employees of NW. They are in a very difficult situation. May they focus their attention on improving their outcome and not waiting for someone or some group to do it for them.
Hating a group of replacement workers or management (as 700UW does) with all their hearts will not correct anything.
Good luck.