Getting Ugly In Phl

[muircross]

Wow! Everyone is making a huge deal of PHL fleet service. Today we had to steal 4 beltloaders off other gates to find 1 that worked, and that was for one flight. Customers probably had to wait an additional 15 minutes for their bags, every day occurance. The equiptment problems frustrate even the most medicated agents and to be fair, unless you work in PHL you'll never know.

Still, Dog Wonder and 700 seem to have a grasp on what is going on there more than the majority of the posters. Many of you are just taking the opportunity to bash unions, Philly, Philly workers and whatever peeve currently resides in their skulls.

Watched ABR agent load about 30 bags from a late connection today and that is not really his job, he's only supposed to deliver them. Happens all the time in Philly. I mean it. They might be the best workers in the system taking into account the obstacles they face.

Love to all.

 

[MrAeroMan]

See you don't know where I work and it is very easy to know what is going on in PHL, see if you were still at US you would know that.

You must be out negotiating more contracts for the IAM. Boy are they in for a surprise huh? :blink:

 

[UseYourHead]

Dell,

The quote from me below has been changed and this I am sure is very much against the rules. I hope you get time in the "cornfield" for this....

Rank: Veteran
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 4,132
Joined: 29-October 02
Member No.: 1,176



QUOTE(UseYourHead @ Oct 4 2005, 03:26 PM)
I did not know we had a southern division...Is that south of the Mason-Dixon line 🙂

A former Piedmont/now NEW US Airways anti-union pilot!

 

[MrAeroMan]

Wow! Everyone is making a huge deal of PHL fleet service. Today we had to steal 4 beltloaders off other gates to find 1 that worked, and that was for one flight. Customers probably had to wait an additional 15 minutes for their bags, every day occurance. The equiptment problems frustrate even the most medicated agents and to be fair, unless you work in PHL you'll never know.

This is a crying shame that only one belt loader worked out of four. Where is vehicle maintenance for these issues? Sounds like management has failed to provide the proper tools to deal with this issue. Has anyone thought of going to Doug Parker about it? Take down numbers and post them here. Like Bob said management will respond when the heat gets hot enough.
The other issue here is employee abuse of equipment. I've seen it and so have most everyone here if they've been through PHL. It's time for the 90% that don't abuse the equipment to call to the carpet the 10% that do. After all they are making their job harder by abusing it.

Watched ABR agent load about 30 bags from a late connection today and that is not really his job, he's only supposed to deliver them. Happens all the time in Philly. I mean it. They might be the best workers in the system taking into account the obstacles they face.

If he/she didn't have anything else to do why is he/she only supposed to deliver them? What's wrong with pitching in and helping out, going the extra mile? That's the difference right there. If going the extra mile doesn't become standard operation procedure from all at LCC you can stick a fork in it because it's done. That goes from Parker all the way to the bottom.

 

[diogenes]

Agreed, but your not working for US Airways anymore. Mangement is AW for the most part

[post="309469"][/post]​

Do you suppose WN is profitable because of those things, or because they operate a superior business plan? Exactly and teamwork is one of their core business values

If WN ceased those activities, would they slip into BK? Most likely, as their business plan is based on putting the employee and customer first. These activities of mutual respect, including employees respecting managment, is one of the ways they keep good people, and customers and remain profitable

I do not underestimate the value of espirit de corp: I am merely pointing out it ts easier to achieve when your team is winning. Funny, this espirt de corp was established when they were "losing" up against Braniff, Texas International, AA, and U. It seems to have worked

And winning has always been about leadership AND execution. Half of which U lacked.





mrman,

With the compensation differential between U and WN (you do know WN pays their folks more than U, right?) and the profit differential between the two, there is no way teamwork alone, or teamwork in large part, accounts for that.

Moreover, how do you account for the fact that U employees frequently kept U ahead of WN ( even more amazing when you consider the complexity of U operations versus WN's) in DOT metrics while confronting a management he//bent on wage cuts and furloughs? Professionalism, perhaps?

My point. When you take an objective look at WN teamwork vs. U teamwork, and WN profits vs. U profits, the difference, by and large, is the business plan. Not the teamwork.

 

[PITbull]

Dell,

The quote from me below has been changed and this I am sure is very much against the rules. I hope you get time in the "cornfield" for this....

Rank: Veteran
Group: Registered Member
Posts: 4,132
Joined: 29-October 02
Member No.: 1,176
QUOTE(UseYourHead @ Oct 4 2005, 03:26 PM)
I did not know we had a southern division...Is that south of the Mason-Dixon line 🙂

A former Piedmont/now NEW US Airways anti-union pilot!

[post="309551"][/post]​

UseYourHead NOT,

If you are citing someone's PM message YOU WILL BE IN THE CORNFILEDS

 

[muircross]

This is a crying shame that only one belt loader worked out of four. Where is vehicle maintenance for these issues? Sounds like management has failed to provide the proper tools to deal with this issue. Has anyone thought of going to Doug Parker about it? Take down numbers and post them here. Like Bob said management will respond when the heat gets hot enough.
The other issue here is employee abuse of equipment. I've seen it and so have most everyone here if they've been through PHL. It's time for the 90% that don't abuse the equipment to call to the carpet the 10% that do. After all they are making their job harder by abusing it.
If he/she didn't have anything else to do why is he/she only supposed to deliver them? What's wrong with pitching in and helping out, going the extra mile? That's the difference right there. If going the extra mile doesn't become standard operation procedure from all at LCC you can stick a fork in it because it's done. That goes from Parker all the way to the bottom.

[post="309569"][/post]​

FYI ABR don't generally load the a/c since they can have several additional connecting bags at other gates. Their job is to make the connections.

Thanks

 

[MrAeroMan]

That's why I said "If he/she didn't have anything else to do." I know and have seen many ABR's or bag runners or whatever you want to call them finish what they were doing and head inside to catch the game or pull out their paper to read it. I know what the job is I'm just saying this whole "it's not my job" thing has got to go.

 

[The guy in 2a]

...there's a way to do things that doesn't ruffle feathers and there's the "To H@!! with you" method - which I hope I somewhat illustrated above.

The former would be to go down, ask the rampers if they'd seen a stroller (or whatever). When they retrieved it, ask if they wanted me to take it up. If they said yes - off I'd go with it. If they said no - off they'd go with it.

...In other words - it's all in how you handle the situation, not what the situation is.

Jim

[post="308476"][/post]​

Your stroller example allows for 2 scenarios to help illustrate your point. Not to takes sides at all, here's another outcome that fits with the example you used -- just to show you that these problems aren't always that easy to tackle --

"When they retrieved it, ask if they wanted me to take it up. If they said yes - off I'd go with it. If they said no - off they'd go with it" -- or not -- what if they said no, but did not take the stroller up the jetway? What happens then?

 

[tadjr]

I worked with some HP trainers today in TPA and got a totally different story than what has been presented here. Can anyone enlighten us on the following?
1) Grievance for picking up a FOD zipper?
2) Spitting on an HP trainer?
3) Agent/lead being fired for said spitting and harrassment with another in trouble?
Just would like to hear the rest of the story since this is vastly different than what has been presented so far and has nothing to do with equipment, etc.

 

[crushed]

I worked with some HP trainers today in TPA and got a totally different story than what has been presented here. Can anyone enlighten us on the following?
1) Grievance for picking up a FOD zipper?
2) Spitting on an HP trainer?
3) Agent/lead being fired for said spitting and harrassment with another in trouble?
Just would like to hear the rest of the story since this is vastly different than what has been presented so far and has nothing to do with equipment, etc.

[post="309643"][/post]​

Of course HP has a different story!

Question? If HP trainers were trying to help....why didn't they set out on foot to find another beltloader for the flight? Instead of doing FSA work on the gate and demanding that they go look for equiptment that doesn't exist?

1)FOD is EVERYONES responsibility.....not a grievable item.
2)No one spit at or cussed out anyone from HP....written statements from witnesses.
3)And NO one has been fired!

P.S. Philly never set the bag chute on fire or killed a managers dog either......but if you want to believe it...........the stories are out there.

 

[tadjr]

Of course HP has a different story!

P.S. Philly never set the bag chute on fire or killed a managers dog either......but if you want to believe it...........the stories are out there.

[post="309653"][/post]​

Never said I believed either story, thats why I wondered if anyone had more info on this side of the story. I didnt find out about the HP people working here until too late to discuss with them more, but I'm sure I will have an interesting conversation tomorrow.

 

[N924PS]

Of course HP has a different story!

Question? If HP trainers were trying to help....why didn't they set out on foot to find another beltloader for the flight? Instead of doing FSA work on the gate and demanding that they go look for equiptment that doesn't exist?

1)FOD is EVERYONES responsibility.....not a grievable item.
2)No one spit at or cussed out anyone from HP....written statements from witnesses.
3)And NO one has been fired!

P.S. Philly never set the bag chute on fire or killed a managers dog either......but if you want to believe it...........the stories are out there.

[post="309653"][/post]​

FOD is another joke at Philly. I don't know how often the aircraft "footprint" at the gate is swept for FOD, but I"ll bet you can select a gate at random and pick up quite a collection of zippers, bag tags, hardware etc.

FOD IS everyone's responsibilty. GIT R DONE!

 

[crushed]

FOD is another joke at Philly.

FOD IS everyone's responsibilty. GIT R DONE!

[post="309661"][/post]​

And by that I'm sure you mean eveyone but you.
I don't see pilots. fleet. cleaners, or maint. picking up FOD

 

[REACC1]

.Quote by Art: "Most of you know I am no fan of unions, and unfortunately this is an excellent example of why they need to change. Cross utilization and cooperation is a fact of life in today's business environment. If you can't or won't grasp the concept, move on. As many times as the CBA's have been broken by management, they have been broken by labor much more often--by lazy workers who disappear when there's work to be done. I realize and admit it's the minority in PHL, but it is a very visible minority, and it affects the overall situation drastically. The appearance is that the union's goal is to get paid as much as possible for as little productivity as possible. Did anyone ever think that this attitude is why outsourcing came to be in the first place? Did anyone ever think if everyone worked smart instead of working hard, there'd be no need to outsource? That perhaps management would have gotten their money's worth and not had to look elsewhere?"

It is a common conception to percieve poor service with, a "union mentality". (Not that I am saying that Art is saying this.) It is a powerful stereotype. Yes, they are out there. The assumption that the union will protect them no matter what they do. I have known people that have abused the system and actually work harder to get out of work than actually doing the job at hand. I have no patience for them. Maybe they had a skewed view as to where their responcibilities lie. They are participating in a -program.
A system designed to keep people honest and accountable. What is a union for anyway? Big question. I acknowlege the concept and what it is for. Accountability is of the utmost importance.
The employees would be a whole lot worse off with out them. IMO. I have seen what can happen with out the "watch dogs".
I believe that a better system can be achieved if the powers that be resign to the fact that a standardization would benifit all. In the name of consistancy and what to expect for the customer, and union members.
While, I am of course , speaking on a personal level, I believe that all would benifit by having a single union for the airport workers. No one would have to bear the burden of crossing the line. and the job would get done. (much to everyones delight) Much as it has been done in the past.
It is inane to believe that a certain job function should not have access to others due to irregular circumstances. It is dumb to assume that the purpose of the management working certain job functions, for a brief period, is an attempt to take a job from someone. Unions are fine, if there are fences put in the right places, due to past common practice. It worked well, in the past. Cross tulization would result in a win for all concerned. one union for all. With that we all have a better future.
The airlines that are respected most are the ones that make the most profit, and service the customer. For efficiency sake, lets drop the fence.